Data Suggests CoC + Outreachy Hasn't Helped Increase Female Participation In Debian

[pal666]

i guess (non-trans)males felt increasing pressure and stood up to challenge. everyone benefits from competition, right?

[LeJimster]

Lol, not surprising.

You can't force diversity or force good conduct. It isn't natural and will have the opposite of the desired effect. Diversity can happen naturally if our guiding ethos is to treat people as individuals rather than grouping people into categories. I would be in favour of a simplified CoC that followed that a simple message of respecting each other as individuals. But instead they are political statements following a extreme one sided agenda that is vindictive, closed minded and hateful.

Every single time a CoC was mentioned over the last year the forums would go up in fire as we denounced them, yet corporations push for them because they have been bullied into doing the "socially acceptable" thing.

Maybe we should as a community come up with a politically neutral CoC that focuses on individuality and respect, without spreading an agenda?

[AsuMagic]

As a typical housewife you have no clue about reality. Men are just much better in IT. You can start your own female project and prove me wrong, but I'm feeling I'll be laughing hard after seeing the end result.

with amazing people like you in open source communities, i wonder why would women feel unwelcomed.

[skeevy420]

Did anyone actually consider that CoC+Outreachy=Hand Job? It's simple math, people.

[kshade]

There could also be other factors, that weren't looked at. Did any cultural changes occur in the same time frame? Maybe Debian has become a worse place for women despite the efforts of CoC and Outreachy? Maybe adopting a CoC and spending money on diversity programs actually triggered an adverse reaction in the male developer community because e.g. they envy paid female developers?

Or maybe having a program that basically announces to the world that your community is so full of assholes that you need a CoC and a special program for women doesn't send the signal people were hoping for. Who knows.

[ms178]

Did anyone actually consider that CoC+Outreachy=Hand Job? It's simple math, people.

Haha, the forum is already on fire, dude.

[AsuMagic]

[pal666]

Well you would be surprised how many females were in IT decades ago before annoying nerd men alienated them away. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_computing

your link says "it has been suggested there is a greater gap in countries where people of both sexes are treated more equally, contradicting any theories that society in general is to blame for any disparity", well that explains how attempts to increase equality are increasing gap instead

[microcode]

Well imagine my shock.

The core of the ‘problem’ is not conduct, it's interest. Stop trying to engineer society to look like your fantasy world where despite the fact that men and women differ in every conceivable way, that somehow stopped at the brain.

[microcode]

Well you would be surprised how many females were in IT decades ago before annoying nerd men alienated them away. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_computing

This is a myth. There's no comparing the job of a computer operator or "programmer" to the job of one today. A "programmer" today is doing both secretarial work of operating the computer and the abstract work of architecting programs (which has stayed pretty similar in terms of female involvement over the years). Just because people stuck around for a while as that era died down doesn't mean that they should or would want to stick around longer.

No great change where men suddenly were too off-putting to be co-workers happened, the day to day reality of roles in computing completely changed, and so did the external social dynamic.

And beyond that, this is Debian contributors, they hardly have to see eachother ever. All you need to contribute to Debian is an interest in making a change to Debian, and the technical ability to make it happen or find out how; and conversely in order not to contribute, you just need to lack one of these, and it's not like everyone contributing to Debian is employed full time in software or went to university for it.