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Data Suggests CoC + Outreachy Hasn't Helped Increase Female Participation In Debian

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  • #31
    Originally posted by kshade View Post
    Or maybe having a program that basically announces to the world that your community is so full of assholes that you need a CoC and a special program for women doesn't send the signal people were hoping for. Who knows.
    That's the point, yes. No one knows. And the blog post and its data does not help in any way with that.


    • #32
      Originally posted by Volta View Post

      As a typical housewife you have no clue about reality. Men are just much better in IT. You can start your own female project and prove me wrong, but I'm feeling I'll be laughing hard after seeing the end result. Ps. I love beautiful, sporty, smart, open women in case you would accuse me of hating women.
      I accuse you, Pikachu. You start off with how housewives have no clue about reality and finish with a list of acceptable adjectives for the women you prefer.

      Does open mean slutty, into Linux, or why not both?


      • #33
        Originally posted by White Wolf View Post

        Anyone is surprised? I love socialist utopia about everyone equal etc. Had been living in communist regime and what I'm 100% sure that kind of programs like this funny Code of Conduct are worthless. Females generally are less interested in IT, my wife sure listens about my dev work but for her it's boooooring. Men like it more, to dig with technical things. But on the opposite side women are stronger in other areas and they are major workers there. I won't even comment this trans women thing... leftist ideology on road in IT is very very bad for industry.
        It's not communist or socialist, just like slavery in the USA wasn't capitalist. It's just morons and people who have nothing better to do with their money.


        • #34
          I have always said that when reason and intellect leave the room liberalism is left behind to take care of things.

          I majored in Physics and Computer Science years ago and I earned Certification as a Unix System Administrator. Years later I went to school to become a Medical Assistant and a couple of years ago I went back to school again and no I am in my last semester before I earn 2 degrees, 1 in Biology and 1 in Health Sciences.

          One thing I found is that in the initial stages of my course work, when everyone had to take the low level science and math courses, the split in my classes and instructors where 50/50 men/women. As the classes became more advanced and more geared towards people seeking a specialized degree, as opposed to general education, the split in math and science classes, especially advanced calculus, physics, chemistry and programming, definitely became a sausage party.

          In the medical field it was much different, with women in general gravitating towards certain specialties, like psychology, social work, dietician, nursing, certain fields of medicine, like genecology, oncology and in the biological sciences i would see a lot of women.

          But in the math heavy sciences, such as chemistry, physics, pure mathematics, and computer science, I wouldn't see as many women.

          Men and women and wired differently, as a rule each sex tends to gravitate towards certain interests and I see nothing wrong with that.

          I have met anyone that could explain to me why "diversity" was a good thing or why forced diversity was desirable.


          • #35
            There is ultimately little harm in having a CoC..

            What an amazing assertion. Citation needed.

            Where's the survey of existing developers at the point of CoC-introduction that asks questions like for example "Does a CoC make you more or less likely to contribute further?", or "Does a CoC make you more or less likely to recommend your friends contribute to the project?", or "Does a CoC make you more or less willing to engage in social discourse (about any subject or personal feelings, even completely unrelated to project participants) in project channels like IRC?"

            I certainly don't know what the aggregate answers to the first two example questions would be. But I'm fairly certain about the outcome of the 3rd, and I don't like it.

            And then where's the followup survey after the CoC oversight board of some other random open source project expels or alienates someone?

            I mean, that's the minimum amount of data you need before making such an assertion.


            • #36
              the most intriguing for me is that no one is fighting for diversity to be increased in female predominant areas, like nurses. When man chooses these career paths that are predominantly female, they also suffer prejudice. Is it because people want woman to be in higher paid jobs? I believe it is, in which case the solution would be leveling some jobs value perception, not forcing people to be represented by big numbers in areas where their interest is low compared to the other gender. Just walk in a computer science class in university anywhere in the world and count how many females there are. of course there will be less of them n the offices. on the other hand, addressing the prejudice and barriers any people suffer when choosing a "gendered" career path that is not suited for them, should definitely be done.


              • #37
                Proof CoC makes things worse.


                • #38
                  Whaman need more CoC, LOL


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by tildearrow View Post
                    Proof CoC makes things worse.
                    Same as Mozilla management firing developers. Wondering why, because they are males?


                    • #40
                      After reading this thread, I am saddened to find me seriously considering avoiding Phoronix. It looks like a small (but loud) share of the community does not understand what feminism or generally programs involving under-represented groups are about.

                      It is of key importance to society to provide opportunity to groups that are under-represented in areas. It has been prove time and time again that this has overwhelmingly positive consequences ranging from better work environments to more diverse ideas (that many or may not translate into business). This does NOT mean that the intended outcome is a perfect split of jobs and/or salary by population. However, it means that people, which would not otherwise have the chance to participate, get exposed to the field/job/task. They may not have other chances to get that exposure and may not even look for it on their own initially.

                      I sometimes wonder if this is still timely; if we still need these programs. Why wouldn't any parent do engineering/programming projects with their daughters and sons alike? ..or send them to summer camps?
                      This thread clearly shows that we do. Far to many (some may not have children yet), seem entitled to know what woman like or should be.
                      This has real consequences in education since women may never get a real shot at some things. Look it this way: did you really "like" school, math, playing that instrument, or competitive sport, when you were very young? Usually, we tend to be very bad at it initially but get better to great over time with enough exercise.
                      This also happens to boys btw -> it is not a bad thing to get exposed and have a minimal understanding of fashion, art, .... Then we have a trend that k12 school performance of males increasingly lags females..

                      PS/for the record:
                      1) underrepresented groups never take your (IT) job away or get the internship position of your son. If anything, they strengthen the industry by providing a new interesting perspective. When job loss happens, it is often because an asian country can do roughly the same just cheaper.
                      2) anyone suggesting that woman are dumber/have no clue in whatever context is a moron. This is scientifically false and is known for a long time.
                      3) if programs like this did benefit only 1 person, it was worth it. It did not cost you anything.
                      Last edited by mppix; 13 February 2021, 12:56 PM.