IBM, Red Hat, VMware & Others Form The Inclusive Naming Initiative

[f0rmat]

"In all, ASPI’s research has identified 82 foreign and Chinese companies potentially directly or indirectly benefiting from the use of Uyghur workers outside Xinjiang through abusive labour transfer programs as recently as 2019: Abercrombie & Fitch, Acer, Adidas, Alstom, Amazon, Apple, ASUS, BAIC Motor, Bestway, BMW, Bombardier, Bosch, BYD, Calvin Klein, Candy, Carter’s, Cerruti 1881, Changan Automobile, Cisco, CRRC, Dell, Electrolux, Fila, Founder Group, GAC Group (automobiles), Gap, Geely Auto, General Motors, Google, Goertek, H&M, Haier, Hart Schaffner Marx, Hisense, Hitachi, HP, HTC, Huawei, iFlyTek, Jack & Jones, Jaguar, Japan Display Inc., L.L.Bean, Lacoste, Land Rover, Lenovo, LG, Li-Ning, Mayor, Meizu, Mercedes-Benz, MG, Microsoft, Mitsubishi, Mitsumi, Nike, Nintendo, Nokia, Oculus, Oppo, Panasonic, Polo Ralph Lauren, Puma, SAIC Motor, Samsung, SGMW, Sharp, Siemens, Skechers, Sony, TDK, Tommy Hilfiger, Toshiba, Tsinghua Tongfang, Uniqlo, Victoria’s Secret, Vivo, Volkswagen, Xiaomi, Zara, Zegna, ZTE. Some brands are linked with multiple factories."

https://www.aspi.org.au/report/uyghurs-sale


(Cisco bolded by me)

Cisco is part of the initiative. Interesting because Cisco is on this list, too - and so are many others who spend a lot of time worrying about "inclusive" language. Apparently, "un-inclusive" language is only an issue if

1. You are in a first world western nation because the rights and liberties you have give you the time and ability (and importantly the freedom of speech) to get enraged over this and you most likely have no concern over the other more basic parts of Maslow's Hierarchy (e.g. food, shelter, clothing...etc.).

2. Changing the wording is actually easier and cheaper than addressing real issues like the one quoted above.

3. Affects you corporate bottom line in the area where you selling/marketing your products - and not the area where you are producing your products. Especially if the area you produce your products does not have quite the same level of freedom of speech.

[MadCatX]

This seems like a great initiative. The barrier to entry into tech is already very high for large swaths of the population, as indicated by literally every comment I've read here up to this point.

Please explain. Be as specific as possible.

[Alliancemd]

Will these companies also pledge to pay their taxes, to have an actual impact on those communities they claim these words affect?

[skeevy420]

This seems like a great initiative. The barrier to entry into tech is already very high for large swaths of the population, as indicated by literally every comment I've read here up to this point.

Anything we can do to make it easier for people to join and flourish the tech communities helps. This by itself is of course not close to enough but making these sorts of changes sends an important signal.

A person's POV determines what kind of important signal is sent. To me this signal sends a bad message wrapped in a pretty ribbon.

Because offense is ever evolving; offense's inherent nature is a moving goal post; but because offense is ever evolving a group like this acting in the name of inclusiveness actually makes it harder for people to join and flourish in tech communities. What's going to be offensive in the future? What already has negative connections? Will the committee like or dislike our name? Will we have to change our git branch name in 10 years because some psycho killed half a town by putting poison in the town's primary water main?

[andyprough]

RedHat is IBM. Sorry to have to break the news to you Michael.

[Michael]

RedHat is IBM. Sorry to have to break the news to you Michael.

I am well aware, but in the context of this initiative they are listed individually.

[TMM_]

A person's POV determines what kind of important signal is sent. To me this signal sends a bad message wrapped in a pretty ribbon.

Because offense is ever evolving; offense's inherent nature is a moving goal post; but because offense is ever evolving a group like this acting in the name of inclusiveness actually makes it harder for people to join and flourish in tech communities. What's going to be offensive in the future? What already has negative connections? Will the committee like or dislike our name? Will we have to change our git branch name in 10 years because some psycho killed half a town by putting poison in the town's primary water main?

The argument you're making is "because we can't be perfect now we shouldn't do anything now". The simple fact is that had these terminologies been invented by people of color we would absolutely never have had a 'master/slave' terminology in computing. Does that mean the people who invented those terms were necessarily bad people? no. But it also doesn't mean we have to just accept those terms forever. It costs very little, except for these kinds of weird arguments online, and it can potentially help make the tech industry easier to navigate for a large groups of people.

What if it doesn't actually help? Then we will try different things. Society evolves. It's fine.

[Volta]

Swastika isn't Greek, it is a common symbol for the Sun wheel found all over the world, the oldest representation is like 12.000 years old and it is still commonly used in Buddhist and Hindu Temples. The name itself comes from Sanskrit.

Swastyka is ancient Slavic and Indian symbol as well.

[Volta]

Their rationalization is what angers me to my core. They imply that we IT geeks and nerds have no culture and this critical theory, post modernist bullshit will just trample over our culture and redefine our words and there meaning! All this for university trained snowflakes who get hung up by a word that rubs them a wrong way because they are still stuck in university culture and haven't absorbed IT culture.

What's next? Do I need to state my pronouns and who I like to fuck before I give my next presentation?!

These universities are nothing more than breeding brainless clones.

[CochainComplex]

Black/white list goes back to the earliest of fears (and religions). Day and Night. Sunlight and Darkness. Daylight is seeing the world, knowledge, and warmth. For the night is dark and full of terrors.

Coincidentally, funnily, that's why red and fire have negative meanings in western societies -- what was good with the old religions became bad with the new religions.

Everything is offensive at one point or another as the wheel of time moves onward. If it isn't offensive today, give the wheel some time and it'll roll somewhere else; something will become less offensive while something else becomes more offensive.

Exactly, when I was young my father told me I will only get Christmas presents if I behave good otherwise my name will end up in the "Black book". And then no presents can be gifted to me. There was never ever any association with Black people and insulting them. It is black and white in the classic and ancient "abrahamic relgions" sense.

But what I have experienced is like "learning the sense" of this words. Once you start to take part in US culture (as I'm doing now more or less) and reading about the culture you understand and you start "to feel" that some words can be seen controversial even if you have never felt/sensed them as problematic before, because there was never any bad association adherent. It is weird.. Not sure if this is good to be honest... it makes prior neutral terms to something which is now biased/afflicted.