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The Problems Debian Is Facing In 2020

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  • #81
    I just figured I'd throw this out to the universe, but isn't diversity for diversity's sake inherently being bigoted? If you have 5 candidates of equal skill, but you hire the one person because of their race/gender/religion, you are a bigot. And even then that's assuming they all have the same skills. If I were presented with that issue, I'd probably have them spin a Wheel of Employment or something. "You're all great candidates. Rock, paper scissors to see who gets the job!" Only way to be fair.

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    • #82
      We just like new and shiny. The fact that it breaks and we can then fix it makes us feel superior.

      No but seriously, lots of people like to run the latest version of X and Y software and get "new" features. For graphics tasks (games primarily and other 3D software), having the latest stable Mesa (or sources from git if you prefer) is always welcomed, especially if you like to upgrade your hardware every couple of years (I don't personally). If you have a specific program you like to use either for recreation or work, you would also like to run the latest to get the new features and/or fixes.

      But that's the thing. Different kinds of uses. What I described above is more for a desktop user. If you run a server or other critical applications that demand stability then you won't care to run the latest, unless it comes with an important fix or a feature you really need.

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      • #83
        Originally posted by kpedersen View Post
        One thing I have learned from people commenting here is that they care for little else other than the very latest packages.

        How come this is so important to people?

        Whether you have Gimp version 2.10.8 rather than 2.10.9 or vim with patch 1382 but not patch 1401 does that really affect so many peoples lives here?

        It is fairly obvious that the majority of people here also use Linux as a workstation or desktop rather than on a server and are generally interested in graphical applications so it can't be to do with security (also updating a server isn't quite the "hammer in apt-get upgrade and sod everything else" approach that it is on the desktop).

        You probably all own phones or games consoles running operating systems with ancient versions of busybox and firmware blobs and yet you seem content with them. So why are so many people not happy with their number being smaller than it could be on their paint program or libpng?

        It is puzzling. Is it a psychological compulsion?
        If all they want are the latest packages, they simply shouldn't be using anything outside of something like Gentoo or Arch. I mean I use Linux at all levels I can, yet I still stick with Debian Sid on my desktop. Why? Because of the MASSIVE amount of software that is pre-packaged. If a few things are a little behind, who cares? It doesn't ruin my day. They keep up on the nvidia driver, hell WineHQ has their very own Debian repos for wine-staging, etc. Debian truly is the universal operating system, if you need/want newer stuff, use Sid, just be aware it occasionally has some funky breaks, but it's usually fixed within a few days, much like Arch.

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        • #84
          The first point on the diversity slide is a legitimate ongoing issue. Linux uptake for desktop isn't high anywhere, but uptake in Africa and Asia is almost nonexistant. If Debian wants to do something about it, I suggest they tackle the language issues. That would be helpful, since no one can use something they can't read, and maybe the effort would be within Debian's means (with outside interest in support). Apart from that it's the same issues as elsewhere - ignorance and choice. Most people don't know what Linux is and when they do they choose to use something else. I don't know what new approaches the Debian project can take to change that.

          Originally posted by Volta View Post
          Their biggest problem is Jonathan Carter. Throw this idiot away.
          Oh. You think he should go back to saving Mars instead of Earth?

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          • #85
            it's not nice to read more technical stuff here in the comments than in the DPL slides, even if DPL's work is not to focus on technical stuff, but instead to coordinate and assist the developers in their work

            but developers write software, nothing else, so to really help them a DPL should focus on improving coordination around the developers

            I think it's great if a community tries to be more inclusive, but how a technical community can be more inclusive? for example banning the EWONTFIX behavior which is a one-way decision dictated by the maintainer, which just blindly ignores use-cases different by his own

            also it's great if a community tries to be more diverse, for example allowing alternative software to run on the same distribution like different network managers, graphical frameworks and init systems

            to reach more people outside the community, or at least to don't lose more users/developers, the community should value more the work donated to the project: why to break something that works? why to deprecate all the libgtk-oldversion applications only because there is a new libgtk version available?

            may be these are not the top relevant topics, but I really would like to see a community more inclusive for developers at first and a DPL who talks about how to make developers life easier

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            • #86
              As a black man living in the US, I wouldn't endorse BLM to my worst enemy, and if you believe in BLM I have a bridge to sell you.
              In my 62 years of walking on this earth, I've never seen such gullible, stupid people in my life. All damn lives matter

              BLM is an embarrassment to the human race and to the people of color.

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              • #87
                Originally posted by Teggs View Post
                Linux uptake for desktop isn't high anywhere, but uptake in Africa and Asia is almost nonexistant. If Debian wants to do something about it, I suggest they tackle the language issues. That would be helpful, since no one can use something they can't read, and maybe the effort would be within Debian's means (with outside interest in support).
                Competing for the desktop does not seem to be a good play when mobile is seemingly so dominant in many African countries. Android is #1 in many of parts of Africa. Linux supporting growth of mobile services on the back end seems like a better application. When I think about Africa I think about the amazing growth in the adoption of mobile financial services.

                Winning the desktop would seemingly be like being the best volleyball player at a soccer game.

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                • #88
                  Originally posted by trek View Post
                  also it's great if a community tries to be more diverse, for example allowing alternative software to run on the same distribution like different network managers, graphical frameworks and init systems
                  Well... that should be the Agenda,in first place,
                  But no.. someone seems more interested in a career in Politics..

                  IMHO, you should "hold your horses", because that doesn't seem to fit in the current agenda..unfortunately.

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                  • #89
                    Originally posted by creoflux View Post
                    Android is #1 in many of parts of Africa.
                    Winning the desktop would seemingly be like being the best volleyball player at a soccer game.
                    Yes but the problem is that Android is Google/Linux, its not free/open..
                    Try to replace the google layer, and you will see were you lands, no drivers, no functionality, nothing..

                    err, its called football..

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                    • #90
                      Originally posted by kpedersen View Post
                      How come this is so important to people?

                      Whether you have Gimp version 2.10.8 rather than 2.10.9 or vim with patch 1382 but not patch 1401 does that really affect so many peoples lives here?
                      When I'm running old versions of software, it greatly diminishes my engagement with the community. Why waste my time (and other people's time too) reporting a bug if my report is just going to get marked "DUPLICATE" or "ALREADYFIXED?" Why waste time fixing or improving the software myself on an old version that will make upstream integration more difficult?

                      Originally posted by kpedersen View Post
                      It is fairly obvious that the majority of people here also use Linux as a workstation or desktop rather than on a server and are generally interested in graphical applications so it can't be to do with security (also updating a server isn't quite the "hammer in apt-get upgrade and sod everything else" approach that it is on the desktop).
                      No, it does have a lot to do with security as well. Why bother using Linux if I'm just going to get powned like all the Windows users get all the time? In fact, why bother using an insecure computer at all?

                      You probably all own phones or games consoles running operating systems with ancient versions of busybox and firmware blobs and yet you seem content with them.
                      I'm absolutely NOT content with my phone being ancient and likely to get powned at any moment. That's why I use real Linux on my desktop and try to minimize the work done on my phone. I know the phone is trash and will certainly get powned and then replaced with a new one at any moment. If I could get a cheap phone that would let me run the latest and greatest real Linux distro instead of that heap of garbage Android, I'd be a lot happier. Unfortunately, that doesn't really exist as an option right now.

                      As for game consoles, they're expendable. Sure, it would suck if my console got powned, but there is not much I can do about it and it's not really the end of the world anyway.

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