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The Problems Debian Is Facing In 2020

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  • writequit
    replied
    I've been running unstable as a desktop for about 15 years and this current install is about 10 years old, and has been transplanted between a couple of different boxes in that time. The thing about debian is there are loads of choices and you can do pretty much anything with it but you have to be prepared to learn a bit about it. Arch is tempting but I can't really be bothered, everything works well enough here.

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  • 9Strike
    replied
    Originally posted by schmidtbag View Post
    There's a lot wrong with the presentation....
    • Most of the problems I encounter is because of an arbitrary definition of stability. The stable branch is basically just old, and although it is unlikely to fail, it doesn't offer everything people are looking for. So, you could jump to testing, but even that has relatively outdated packages, and is very unstable. Arch offers newer packages with (to my understanding) fewer paid developers, and I encounter far fewer problems due to updates.
    • There is no timely manner for a message about BLM, or any political movement. I don't care whose side you're on - if it doesn't have anything to do with the development of the distro, keep politics separate.
    • How do you lack diversity when you're an international organization?
    • Stability for Debian means "there might be bugs, but there won't be _new_ bugs". Ofc that's not for everyone, but it also doesn't need to be for everyone. Imagine an office computer. It doesn't need new software, the important thing is that there won't be any new bugs or changing UIs. Also, Testing is pretty stable, and it's not old. I don't know where you get that from, you can check the numbers on repology.org. Arch is basically as stable as Testing. If there is a bug from upstream, you'll get it on both. Package breakages usually only appear on Sid and it's easy to resolve them (speaking from experience).
    • Debian isn't just a distro, it's (huge) community. You can't compare that to a project with like 20 people. Debian has a so called " Social Contract", which makes it rather different from most FOSS projects. Also, stop crying about that BLM point, it was literally a minute of 40 minutes from the presentation.
    • Just being international doesn't make you diverse. Even if everyone could join but only a specific group of people does, it means you are not diverse. Whether that's Debian's fault or just because only a specific group of people is interested in working on a distro are two separate points, but - for example - getting more women into the FOSS world is a nice goal IMHO.

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  • 9Strike
    replied
    Originally posted by Paul Frederick View Post

    They could even run stable with a newer kernel. But you'd have to know what you're doing to pull that off. That's the problem with Debian, you have to know what you're doing in order to use it successfully. Debian is not inclusive enough with ignorant people. That's a giant segment of users we're missing out on too. That's not a problem just Debian faces either. There's a lot of this you have to know what you're doing thing surrounding Linux in general. It's holding us back!
    It's not too hard, you can pull a newer kernel from backports. It's true, you have to know what you're doing, but nobody claims that Debian is a distro for newcomers. You could say the same for Arch, or Gentoo.

    ​​​​​​The Problem of Debian is well presented in this comment section. People (that don't really use it) blame it for old software (which isn't fair since there is Testing/Sid with fancy new software), and rage about a single BLM point from a 40min presentation. Those people don't get that Debian isn't just a distro build by a couple of people (e. g. Arch) or a company (e. g. Red Hat), but rather by a community with roughly 1000 developers and >2000 additional uploaders (probably more), which are all bound by the same _social_ contract (yes that is a real thing in Debian).

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  • Paul Frederick
    replied
    Originally posted by skeevy420 View Post

    I never found I had that problem with Debian. Their documentation was good enough and the Arch Wiki was a good supplement so figuring out how to do A or B was no harder than figuring it out on any other OS. My problem with Debian, and this is coming from someone who used Debian for the first 8 years of my 19 on Linux, is that I could either pick Stable and have an outdated desktop that doesn't run games or pick Testing and have a somewhat stable desktop that's somewhat close to being up to date...but will then be out of date as soon as Debian gets close to a new release where I'd then be flooded with a bunch of updates and stability tanking until usually a reinstall.

    Based on comments, the problems I had with Debian then are the same problems most seem to have with them now.
    Release cycle is a toughie. There's always going to be some lag. If Debian released packages willy-nilly that'd be chaos. So some kind of a happy medium needs to be struck. Debian's reputation is that it is a bit behind, but solid. Which I am OK with. My priorities line up well with that. I'm on the platform because it is solid. If I didn't care about that there's plenty of other paths I could choose.

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  • kpedersen
    replied
    Originally posted by Paul Frederick View Post

    A black terminal with white text can get very pretty. It really is all in what font you select to use. Right now I am using urxvt -rv -fn "xft: Hack:style=Regular" and it is looking good to me. fixed turns me right off though.
    I see what you are saying but that isn't really Debian. That is a 3rd party Xorg program. That is your job to customize that to fit your needs, not Debian's. Your needs are not my needs and vice versa.

    Many people use Debian and the (depending on platform) framebuffer console directly. Making that look pretty is always going to be a losing battle. How long until some kid wants emoticons (emojiis?) on their console and will moan that Debian looks ugly until their childish crap is all over the OS? I really wish those types would just keep with Ubuntu and not bring their "tackiness" to projects like Debian. One of the issues with Ubuntu starting to fail is that all of the "cool kids" they collected over the years are being unleashed on other projects. We are seeing a massive influx of this on the FreeBSD forums for example.

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  • skeevy420
    replied
    Originally posted by Mario Junior View Post
    That's why I only use distros with corporations behind, like OpenSUSE, Fedora or distros without these re*ardism like Gentoo.
    Is the word "relardism"? And is that where we bring back trans fats? Because I miss good tasting french fries

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  • Mario Junior
    replied

    That's why I only use distros with corporations behind, like OpenSUSE, Fedora or distros without these re*ardism like Gentoo.

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  • skeevy420
    replied
    Originally posted by schmidtbag View Post
    There's a lot wrong with the presentation....
    • How do you lack diversity when you're an international organization?
    Don't know why, but that reminds me of the Vogue Magazine England division's diversity crap they went though. They did a group photo and there were like 8 or 9 white ladies and 2 or 3 black ladies. They got hounded for not being "diverse" enough when, at least statistically, they were more diverse than the country of England they were supposed to represent.

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  • reavertm
    replied
    Debian is meta-distro nowadays. Like Gentoo, except it's outdated.

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  • schmidtbag
    replied
    There's a lot wrong with the presentation....
    • Debian doesn't need to be flashier. Debian is the go-to distro for Ubuntu users who don't want all the flashiness and bloat. In a user perspective, it's easier to make something pretty than it is to simplify.
    • Debian gets sufficient marketing, the problem is the attention they get is usually negative. This is usually because of misguided leadership...
    • Most of the problems I encounter is because of an arbitrary definition of stability. The stable branch is basically just old, and although it is unlikely to fail, it doesn't offer everything people are looking for. So, you could jump to testing, but even that has relatively outdated packages, and is very unstable. Arch offers newer packages with (to my understanding) fewer paid developers, and I encounter far fewer problems due to updates.
    • "Lesten" isn't a word
    • There is no timely manner for a message about BLM, or any political movement. I don't care whose side you're on - if it doesn't have anything to do with the development of the distro, keep politics separate.
    • How do you lack diversity when you're an international organization?

    Leave a comment:

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