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The Problems Debian Is Facing In 2020

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  • trek
    replied
    it's not nice to read more technical stuff here in the comments than in the DPL slides, even if DPL's work is not to focus on technical stuff, but instead to coordinate and assist the developers in their work

    but developers write software, nothing else, so to really help them a DPL should focus on improving coordination around the developers

    I think it's great if a community tries to be more inclusive, but how a technical community can be more inclusive? for example banning the EWONTFIX behavior which is a one-way decision dictated by the maintainer, which just blindly ignores use-cases different by his own

    also it's great if a community tries to be more diverse, for example allowing alternative software to run on the same distribution like different network managers, graphical frameworks and init systems

    to reach more people outside the community, or at least to don't lose more users/developers, the community should value more the work donated to the project: why to break something that works? why to deprecate all the libgtk-oldversion applications only because there is a new libgtk version available?

    may be these are not the top relevant topics, but I really would like to see a community more inclusive for developers at first and a DPL who talks about how to make developers life easier

    Leave a comment:


  • Teggs
    replied
    The first point on the diversity slide is a legitimate ongoing issue. Linux uptake for desktop isn't high anywhere, but uptake in Africa and Asia is almost nonexistant. If Debian wants to do something about it, I suggest they tackle the language issues. That would be helpful, since no one can use something they can't read, and maybe the effort would be within Debian's means (with outside interest in support). Apart from that it's the same issues as elsewhere - ignorance and choice. Most people don't know what Linux is and when they do they choose to use something else. I don't know what new approaches the Debian project can take to change that.

    Originally posted by Volta View Post
    Their biggest problem is Jonathan Carter. Throw this idiot away.
    Oh. You think he should go back to saving Mars instead of Earth?

    Leave a comment:


  • leech
    replied
    Originally posted by kpedersen View Post
    One thing I have learned from people commenting here is that they care for little else other than the very latest packages.

    How come this is so important to people?

    Whether you have Gimp version 2.10.8 rather than 2.10.9 or vim with patch 1382 but not patch 1401 does that really affect so many peoples lives here?

    It is fairly obvious that the majority of people here also use Linux as a workstation or desktop rather than on a server and are generally interested in graphical applications so it can't be to do with security (also updating a server isn't quite the "hammer in apt-get upgrade and sod everything else" approach that it is on the desktop).

    You probably all own phones or games consoles running operating systems with ancient versions of busybox and firmware blobs and yet you seem content with them. So why are so many people not happy with their number being smaller than it could be on their paint program or libpng?

    It is puzzling. Is it a psychological compulsion?
    If all they want are the latest packages, they simply shouldn't be using anything outside of something like Gentoo or Arch. I mean I use Linux at all levels I can, yet I still stick with Debian Sid on my desktop. Why? Because of the MASSIVE amount of software that is pre-packaged. If a few things are a little behind, who cares? It doesn't ruin my day. They keep up on the nvidia driver, hell WineHQ has their very own Debian repos for wine-staging, etc. Debian truly is the universal operating system, if you need/want newer stuff, use Sid, just be aware it occasionally has some funky breaks, but it's usually fixed within a few days, much like Arch.

    Leave a comment:


  • Melcar
    replied
    We just like new and shiny. The fact that it breaks and we can then fix it makes us feel superior.

    No but seriously, lots of people like to run the latest version of X and Y software and get "new" features. For graphics tasks (games primarily and other 3D software), having the latest stable Mesa (or sources from git if you prefer) is always welcomed, especially if you like to upgrade your hardware every couple of years (I don't personally). If you have a specific program you like to use either for recreation or work, you would also like to run the latest to get the new features and/or fixes.

    But that's the thing. Different kinds of uses. What I described above is more for a desktop user. If you run a server or other critical applications that demand stability then you won't care to run the latest, unless it comes with an important fix or a feature you really need.

    Leave a comment:


  • leech
    replied
    I just figured I'd throw this out to the universe, but isn't diversity for diversity's sake inherently being bigoted? If you have 5 candidates of equal skill, but you hire the one person because of their race/gender/religion, you are a bigot. And even then that's assuming they all have the same skills. If I were presented with that issue, I'd probably have them spin a Wheel of Employment or something. "You're all great candidates. Rock, paper scissors to see who gets the job!" Only way to be fair.

    Leave a comment:


  • leech
    replied
    Originally posted by enrico.tagliavini View Post
    I could agree with the problems presented in Debian. Not catching up enough and not having easier on boarding also has technical consequences. I see Debian as still stuck in early 2000. The don't release often and they don't push updated packages to the current stable release. This is not good. You need recent drivers to run well on newer computers, in fact most Linux distros based on Debian don't ship the stock debian kernel, or mesa drivers (SteamOS anybody?).

    There is nothing wrong with having a super high quality and rock solid distro, they should keep this goal as it's part of the Debian brand, but if it doesn't run on my laptop because your kernel it's old... all that mighty rock solid power is if little use.

    I hope they can sort it out and improve their situation.
    What do you mean they don't? Add debian-backports, and you're fine. Yup, new kernels in there too. Debian is a STABLE (if you're running stable) distribution, much in the same way Redhat / CentOS is a stable distribution. They don't release new versions of packages once they hit a release, they just backport patches. Only on rare occasions do they full on package new versions if something severe is needed.

    Leave a comment:


  • kpedersen
    replied
    One thing I have learned from people commenting here is that they care for little else other than the very latest packages.

    How come this is so important to people?

    Whether you have Gimp version 2.10.8 rather than 2.10.9 or vim with patch 1382 but not patch 1401 does that really affect so many peoples lives here?

    It is fairly obvious that the majority of people here also use Linux as a workstation or desktop rather than on a server and are generally interested in graphical applications so it can't be to do with security (also updating a server isn't quite the "hammer in apt-get upgrade and sod everything else" approach that it is on the desktop).

    You probably all own phones or games consoles running operating systems with ancient versions of busybox and firmware blobs and yet you seem content with them. So why are so many people not happy with their number being smaller than it could be on their paint program or libpng?

    It is puzzling. Is it a psychological compulsion?
    Last edited by kpedersen; 05 September 2020, 12:10 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Volta
    replied
    Originally posted by johnny View Post

    You're still super mad that you lost. You can't deny that you lost. So you can say whatever you want about me, but nothing changes that you lost.
    The main thing I've lost is confidence toward some people (RMS) and projects (Debian). I'm using Fedora and I consider it's the best OS in existence. However, I have sentiment toward Debian, because my first Linux distribution (Knoppix) is based on it. Then I've been using Kubuntu for several years. Now I have to read some mindless crap from so called Debian 'leader' about black people (black people are fine btw. and how many black developers do you have?) or Stallman's lgbt bullshit. I've believed you people are smarter and you won't be fooled so easily by some j-s propaganda. I'll take a closer look on you, because I have a feeling you're some corporate driven spotter.
    Last edited by Volta; 05 September 2020, 09:37 AM.

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  • onicsis
    replied
    The Problem Debian Is Facing In 2020 is maximizing stupidity.

    Leave a comment:


  • parlorcitytech
    replied
    Originally posted by johnny View Post

    You're still super mad that you lost. You can't deny that you lost. So you can say whatever you want about me, but nothing changes that you lost.
    Is this clown serious?

    Leave a comment:

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