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The Problems Debian Is Facing In 2020

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  • kpedersen
    replied
    "Debian isn't pretty enough".

    How pretty can a black terminal with white text get?

    Some people need to realise that for many use-cases, Debian is simply a tool (and a fairly good one). Not some fantastic consumer experience. We really don't want their "tackiness" imposed upon us. For example we need to see the boot-up messages, we need to access the grub loader, we need to install it via rs232 (without an X11 UI). We also run it on some machines which don't even have a GPU.

    I don't think an OS can cater well to both types of user. I think Debian needs to either tell them "No!" or tell us "No!" so we know where it is heading and find something more consistent further down the line.
    Last edited by kpedersen; 04 September 2020, 06:29 AM.

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  • Slartifartblast
    replied
    BLM ?

    Mr Carter, do me a favour and stop virtue signalling from your moral grandstand.

    I really fail to see how this is going help with distribution stability ?
    Last edited by Slartifartblast; 04 September 2020, 06:15 AM.

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  • enrico.tagliavini
    replied
    Originally posted by 9Strike View Post

    Debian Stable isn't intended for that use case. However, you can easily run Debian Testing. It's basically like Arch, but with six times the packages.
    Debian testing is not for everybody and it breaks at times (been there done that). The average Joe doesn't want something like that. They would much prefer a stable distro, which works on modern computer.

    Not sure what you mean with "Debian Stable isn't intended for that use case.". It's supposed to run on computers, if it runs only on very out of date hardware due to missing modern drivers... I guess that's a complain I have about it and it's the very one which makes me exclude Debian for anything I do with Linux, no matter what.

    Just as an example: Red Hat Enterprise Linux 7, which is old, very old by now, has more up to date drivers than Debian stable. It boots on modern computers because Red Hat backports the drivers to the older kernel RHEL runs. This requires a lot of man power of course. An alternative approach would be do like Fedora does: just run upstream kernel, staying one release behind to allow it to stabilize. I guess this is not for everybody, but works fairly well at the end of the day.

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  • killyou
    replied
    Debian biggest problems in my opinion are:
    - they are terrible at attracting regular people. Everyone just chooses Ubuntu or even Fedora.
    - lack of proper segmentation of the product. Make it easier to choose and download which version you need i.e. desktop OS, server OS etc. When you go to Ubuntu or Fedora website you immediately get the understanding what OS versions are there and which one you need to get. Noone should have to do the due diligence to find out about stable, testing, experimental to find out which is suitable.
    - website is outdated. Refresh is very much needed with a big desktop OS download hitting your face
    - outdated packages

    They need to take a look on what Ubuntu and Fedora is doing, otherwise they will remain just a base for other systems.

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  • Alexmitter
    replied
    Originally posted by 9Strike View Post

    Debian Stable isn't intended for that use case. However, you can easily run Debian Testing. It's basically like Arch, but with six times the packages.
    I was very impressed by Debian Sid/Testing, as this is what Mobian currently ships, packages are always up to date, while being very stable. The maintainers to brilliant work even for those not actually meant for use versions.

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  • 9Strike
    replied
    Originally posted by enrico.tagliavini View Post
    You need recent drivers to run well on newer computers, in fact most Linux distros based on Debian don't ship the stock debian kernel, or mesa drivers (SteamOS anybody?).

    There is nothing wrong with having a super high quality and rock solid distro, they should keep this goal as it's part of the Debian brand, but if it doesn't run on my laptop because your kernel it's old... all that mighty rock solid power is if little use.

    I hope they can sort it out and improve their situation.
    Debian Stable isn't intended for that use case. However, you can easily run Debian Testing. It's basically like Arch, but with six times the packages.

    Leave a comment:


  • 9Strike
    replied
    Watch the video. The BLM thing was just an example for the slow processes that Debian sometimes faces.

    ​​I think Debian does an amazing job in delivering a free OS and pushing good programming practices (instead of just blindly taking what's out there).

    Leave a comment:


  • Smurphy
    replied
    Originally posted by Redfoxmoon View Post
    Debian has become religious, and their religion is the religion of woke.
    Debian has been religious since the early beginning. That part has never changed.
    I like debian as it is. slick, stable for servers. My hardware is 10 years old, so a perfect match!
    For desktop, I use something more modern ... :}

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  • enrico.tagliavini
    replied
    I could agree with the problems presented in Debian. Not catching up enough and not having easier on boarding also has technical consequences. I see Debian as still stuck in early 2000. The don't release often and they don't push updated packages to the current stable release. This is not good. You need recent drivers to run well on newer computers, in fact most Linux distros based on Debian don't ship the stock debian kernel, or mesa drivers (SteamOS anybody?).

    There is nothing wrong with having a super high quality and rock solid distro, they should keep this goal as it's part of the Debian brand, but if it doesn't run on my laptop because your kernel it's old... all that mighty rock solid power is if little use.

    I hope they can sort it out and improve their situation.

    Leave a comment:


  • johnny
    replied
    I'm really enjoying drinking all these tears. Anybody else? There's nothing else to argue, because not a single one of you can get it through your thick skulls. The battle is over, and all you do nothings lost.
    Last edited by johnny; 04 September 2020, 05:53 AM.

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