Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Linus Torvalds Switches To AMD Ryzen Threadripper After 15 Years Of Intel Systems

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by zyxxel View Post
    I have never said the Threadripper processors are toys. I have said the chipset has a high focus on gaming and misses out a number of things important for workstations.
    I'm saying it really isn't missing a whole lot for most workstations, and that it has no focus whatsoever on gaming, at any level.
    Also I'm confused by your mention of chipset. PCIe and RAM controllers and all "businness features" are in the Threadripper "CPU" thing, not in the chipset.

    That said, what does a Threadripper system offer to a gamer? It's beyond overkill in all parameters. Too much cores, too much RAM, too much PCIe lanes (SLI/CRossfire are dead and were dead years ago too, so there is no point for 4 PCIe slots), too much USB 3.0, too much SSD slots and storage ports.

    It is clearly aimed at workstations, but it cannot be used for high end ones because it does not have enough RAM. Does not make the other workstations any less workstation than high end ones.

    And my post about the Threadripper Pro was about why AMD for some reason decided to made the previously released chipsets in a way that misses out for the workstation market.
    Oh I can tell you the reason they did this.
    Back then they didn't want to lose any bit of Epyc sales, square and simple. Since this "Threadripper pro" is clearly a rebadged Epyc, it's pretty much certain they were more interested in keeping all possible parts for their initial assault of the server market (which is the main moneymaker for these kinds of processors, no doubts about it).
    They provided a segmented product for the midrange workstation and enthusiast, (Threadripper) but went to great lengths to keep it NOT APPEALING for server use.

    Now, a couple of years later and in a much better position than back then, they feel like they can afford to not 100% target servers only with their high end CPUs and make these vanity products (that still drive sales, but aren't main moneymakers themselves).

    Comment


    • Originally posted by zyxxel View Post
      And the toy/gaming chipset for the Threadripper family seems to be explained by this:https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pa...pper-pro&num=1
      The memory controller is in-package - not in the chipset. Still, I wonder if that die isn't really the same one that's also used in Epyc.
      Last edited by coder; 17 July 2020, 09:36 PM.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by coder View Post
        The memory controller is in-package - not in the chipset. Still, I wonder if that die isn't really the same one that's also used in Epyc.
        you mean "IO chiplet"? Because it really probably is using the same IO chiplet as Epyc given it has the same features. I mean it's either that or they made a new one that does the same job, which is kind of weird.

        Comment


        • I moved up to an i7 recently and I was very disappointed with the performance -- it's not slow but it's just not fast. Intel got lazy and it shows. Now AMD is eating their lunch in the desktop market while ARM is taking up the mobile market. Intel better get their act together or they will get left behind for good.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by herman View Post
            I moved up to an i7 recently and I was very disappointed with the performance -- it's not slow but it's just not fast.
            From what to what? "i7" means different things, depending on the market and generation.

            Have you tried disabling mitigations? Depending on what you do with your PC, this could be worth the risk and provide an easy performance boost.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by coder View Post
              From what to what? "i7" means different things, depending on the market and generation.

              Have you tried disabling mitigations? Depending on what you do with your PC, this could be worth the risk and provide an easy performance boost.
              I had a Core 2 Duo, and I loved that thing. It was miles ahead of the Pentium 4 it replaced (despite the P4 having a primitive form of hyper-threading, lol). Remember when single-core computers used to hang and you couldn't move the mouse for a minute? Dual cores wiped that out for good. Anyway, it lasted nearly 10 years before I got an i-7. I'm sure disabling the mitigations would speed things up, but personally, I wouldn't trade security for speed. I guess it's just because I waited 10 years from the dual core processor that I expected things to get much better. It also didn't help that my CPU was nerfed after I bought it. It's enough to sour me on x86 processors in general. I'd love to see ARM take over.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by herman View Post
                I had a Core 2 Duo, and I loved that thing.
                Yeah, they were good.

                Except, I was more interested in what you upgraded to.

                Originally posted by herman View Post
                It also didn't help that my CPU was nerfed after I bought it. It's enough to sour me on x86 processors in general. I'd love to see ARM take over.
                Out-of-order ARM cores were affected by some of the side-channel attacks, too.

                I'm with you on wanting to see the sun set on x86, but it really is the fastest thing currently available. Apple's ARM cores are the only real challenger, but only in a power-constrained or thermally-limited scenario. If you put them in a desktop or a performance-oriented notebook, the higher clockspeed ceiling of x86 will carry it to an easy victory.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by coder View Post
                  Yeah, they were good.

                  Except, I was more interested in what you upgraded to.
                  i7-6700. It's nice, but it doesn't feel as big of a jump as the Core 2 Duo was from the P4. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy with what I've got; I just think the industry didn't move as much as it could have.

                  Originally posted by coder View Post
                  Out-of-order ARM cores were affected by some of the side-channel attacks, too.

                  I'm with you on wanting to see the sun set on x86, but it really is the fastest thing currently available. Apple's ARM cores are the only real challenger, but only in a power-constrained or thermally-limited scenario. If you put them in a desktop or a performance-oriented notebook, the higher clockspeed ceiling of x86 will carry it to an easy victory.
                  Apple is making the move at the right time. Intel is still struggling to shrink their die while ARM is rapidly gaining performance. I was watching a recent video of the new Raspberry Pi 4 and I was impressed with how far they've come along. I really think the majority of computer users (let's face it, most of them are consumers rather than producers) will be completely happy on a new ARM board within the next 2-5 years, which is how long Apple is planning to take to release their new ARM-based Macs.
                  Last edited by herman; 22 July 2020, 11:26 PM.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by herman View Post
                    i7-6700. It's nice, but it doesn't feel as big of a jump as the Core 2 Duo was from the P4. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy with what I've got; I just think the industry didn't move as much as it could have.
                    Oh, I disagree. If you combine IPC-improvements and the higher clockspeed, Skylake is easily as big a jump. And that's before you even factor in the extra cores, hyperthreading, or integrated memory controller. Then, you have things like AVX2, crypto acceleration, and L3 cache.

                    Originally posted by herman View Post
                    I was watching a recent video of the new Raspberry Pi 4 and I was impressed with how far they've come along.
                    I'm confused. Do you just care about the amount of improvement, or the absolute performance? The original Pi was kind of equivalent to a Pentium MMX or thereabouts. With their A72 cores, maybe they're now the level of a Core2 Quad, if we're being generous. While that's a massive jump, it's really nothing remotely on par with where Apple is at, much less a full-fledged desktop CPU like your i7.

                    Originally posted by herman View Post
                    I really think the majority of computer users (let's face it, most of them are consumers rather than producers) will be completely happy on a new ARM board within the next 2-5 years, which is how long Apple is planning to take to release their new ARM-based Macs.
                    Could be. With the Cortex-X1, ARM is now focusing squarely on the performance-oriented segment. Maybe someone will build a SoC around it, intended for use in Mini-PCs running Windows 10. It's a little hard to see a straight path to the desktop, but it'll get there, eventually.

                    To be honest, as of about 5 years ago, I expected to have an ARM-based PC, by now. Not my primary machine, but perhaps my fileserver, which I'm instead about to upgrade to a Ryzen 3000 or maybe a 4000-series APU. In my defense, I think AMD had recently announced their ARM-based server chip (which they eventually shipped). I expected that'd be the basket where they put most of their eggs - not in Zen.
                    Last edited by coder; 23 July 2020, 02:59 AM.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by coder View Post
                      Oh, I disagree. If you combine IPC-improvements and the higher clockspeed, Skylake is easily as big a jump. And that's before you even factor in the extra cores, hyperthreading, or integrated memory controller.
                      On paper it's huge, but it doesn't seem to reflect real world results. Sometimes CPU usage took up more resources than expected on lighter tasks (online video streaming, etc). I've noticed this more on Windows but haven't done enough testing on Fedora.

                      Originally posted by coder View Post
                      I'm confused. Do you just care about the amount of improvement, or the absolute performance? The original Pi was kind of equivalent to a Pentium MMX or thereabouts. With their A72 cores, maybe they're now the level of a Core2 Quad, if we're being generous. While that's a massive jump, it's really nothing remotely on par with where Apple is at, much less a full-fledged desktop CPU like your i7.
                      I care about both (I'm greedy ). To borrow from your analogy, the jump from a Pentium MMX to a Core2 Quad was the impressive part, and that's the kind of jump I was expecting from a Core 2 Duo to i7. You are also right that the Raspberry Pi is nothing close to an i7, but it still can handle light desktop computing tasks. The Raspberry Pi 6 or 7 should be able to easily function as a desktop replacement for mild browsing/email related tasks, which is what most people tend to use their computers for nowadays. Just imagine if companies started selling high-end laptop kits (display+keyboard combos) for the next generation of Raspberry Pis. It's conceivable that such a project could take off.

                      Originally posted by coder View Post
                      Could be. With the Coretex-X1, ARM is now focusing squarely on the performance-oriented segment.

                      To be honest, as of about 5 years ago, I expected to have an ARM-based PC, by now. Not my primary machine, but perhaps my fileserver, which I'm instead about to upgrade to a Ryzen 3000 or maybe a 4000-series APU.
                      You're far more of a visionary than me since I've only recently discovered this. Apple will have to first show everyone if it can be a success and then most manufacturers will follow suit.
                      Last edited by herman; 23 July 2020, 03:30 AM.

                      Comment

                      Working...
                      X