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Thunderbird Mail Client Now Being Pushed Along By "MZLA Technologies Corporation"

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  • #21
    Originally posted by Mez' View Post
    Anyway, I've been using it for for the last 15 years. It's fantastic with the lightning extension.
    Also, it looks arguably better with the monterail theme. But this will be a matter of opinion.

    The main points I'm not fully satisfied with:
    • In general the reply window looks very austere and I just don't feel fully comfortable using Tb because of it. As of late, I've been to the specific webmails because it's much cleaner and warmer. Hence, it needs a cleaner and warmer message structure.
      • Replies with "On 29/01/2020 11:05, John DOE wrote:" is a big no. Structure that on a couple of clean lines with From, to, etc... It gives space, it is easier to find between several lines of text and thus you spot the beginning of a message more easily.
      • In the same vein, please add a line between replied messages for distinction's sake
      • it is sometimes difficult to find an attachment within a message containing several replies. Give it a specific fixed section independent from each message. Whether it is on top, on the side or on the bottom, I really don't care.
    • The left menu/tree (Inbox, etc...) is not aligned horizontally with the first message line but with the column titles, it hurts the eye.
    If these are given proper attention, I see many more years ahead.
    For the reply format, I use the ReplyWithHeader extension.
    As for the attachments, when I open a message they are always in a bar at the bottom of the screen, which is not involved in scrolling (it's always visible). Exactly like you seem to be suggesting it should be. And I'm pretty sure that's the default.

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    • #22
      Thunderbird is an amazing piece of software despite all its quirks. It is the only client I see handling gigantic mailboxes while others failed miserably, starting from Outlook. Unfortunately email clients aren't quite necessary as the internet browsers, hence Thunderbird has been quite omitted, even if it serves something like 27 Million users; but since the moment I ditched completely Gmail the only way to have a fastest and useful access to my new mailbox has became exactly Thunderbird.

      If I was Mozilla I would start from Thunderbird to build an alternative to Gugle domain...

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      • #23
        Originally posted by Mez' View Post
        I'm just going to add the most important part of your message, which is probably implicit but I don't want others to miss it.

        "For me".
        It could be "subjectively" though.
        Or maybe "this is only my opinion".
        And if we want to be more casual "just my two cents".

        Just saying because it seems so enforced and we wouldn't want people to believe you extrapolated your single opinion to a widespread truth.
        No, just no, on all counts.

        Gnome 3 was widely panned as a radical departure from Gnome 2, which completely broke the workflow of so many users. The Gnome wikipedia page has a #criticism heading just for Gnome 3: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNOME#Criticism

        Also the fact that MATE, Cinnamon, and others like them have been been so successful, with most distros offering a spin of these desktops, is evidence of widespread dissatisfaction with the direction of the Gnome 3 project.

        So no, my statement was not an isolated opinion, it is quite widespread, as I'm sure you well know.

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        • #24
          If Thunderbird had good activesync support that firms could pay for, then maybe it could compete better with Outlook. It would also need good integration with vertical market applications. The biggest use case of email clients these days are in enterprise. This often means working well with exchange and other business use cases. This is perfect for paid support. People like myself...and I'm sure many of you...who use one at home are an outlier.

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          • #25
            Originally posted by torsionbar28 View Post

            No, just no, on all counts.

            Gnome 3 was widely panned as a radical departure from Gnome 2, which completely broke the workflow of so many users. The Gnome wikipedia page has a #criticism heading just for Gnome 3: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNOME#Criticism

            Also the fact that MATE, Cinnamon, and others like them have been been so successful, with most distros offering a spin of these desktops, is evidence of widespread dissatisfaction with the direction of the Gnome 3 project.

            So no, my statement was not an isolated opinion, it is quite widespread, as I'm sure you well know.
            Not isolated. Still subjective. Plain yes, on all counts.
            Don't try to generalize an opinion that has some loud advocates and yet is far from being a majority you could generalize. I don't even like Gnome that much, but what you say from your own prism is simply not objective in any kind of way.

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            • #26
              Originally posted by Mez' View Post
              Not isolated. Still subjective. Plain yes, on all counts.
              Don't try to generalize an opinion that has some loud advocates and yet is far from being a majority you could generalize. I don't even like Gnome that much, but what you say from your own prism is simply not objective in any kind of way.
              Don't try to isolate an opinion that is so pervasive and widespread in the community. Likewise, your subjective analysis of my fact-based statement is from your own prism and is simply not objective in any kind of way. Unless of course you're claiming that Gnome 3 has not been subject to widespread criticism, in which case you're objectively wrong. Cheers

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              • #27
                Originally posted by p91paul View Post

                For the reply format, I use the ReplyWithHeader extension.
                As for the attachments, when I open a message they are always in a bar at the bottom of the screen, which is not involved in scrolling (it's always visible). Exactly like you seem to be suggesting it should be. And I'm pretty sure that's the default.
                I just checked. I'm on the default and attachments are below each related message, not in a fixed frame. When you have conversations with a few people, you need to scroll through the thread to find each individual attachments. They should be on a fixed panel independent from scrolling.

                Thanks for the ReplyWithHeader extension, I will look into it.
                Although I believe you shouldn't need an extension for such a basic concept of clean design.

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                • #28
                  Originally posted by torsionbar28 View Post
                  Don't try to isolate an opinion that is so pervasive and widespread in the community. Likewise, your subjective analysis of my fact-based statement is from your own prism and is simply not objective in any kind of way. Unless of course you're claiming that Gnome 3 has not been subject to widespread criticism, in which case you're objectively wrong. Cheers
                  Contrary to you, I'll never be as egocentric as to believe my opinion is encompassing or representing others'. I always make clear it's "just my opinion". I'm not trying to extrapolate it to others with just a few references to loud voices (and we know about the silent majority) and a couple of links.
                  This is really annoying in the comments section nowadays that some people always extrapolate what they express as an opinion to be the single version of the truth. They said it, so it's a general thing... Their weak argument has to be enforced to make believe it has more weight than what it really has (just an opinion).

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                  • #29
                    I've used them all. The good the bad from some of the major ones.

                    Evolution:
                    Evolution has an attractive layout and looks pretty good. But it seems to have integration problems and formatting/syntax problems. It's also difficult to extend it and add extra functionality to it. It feels also VERY neglected. It reminds me of Eudora, and that is a good thing. It's OK, but Thunderbird is just a little bit better. Gnome might want to adopt Thunderbird.. or start a project to improve it.

                    KMail:
                    KMail is pretty good really, I'd say it's better than Thunderbird. It has a lot of functionality, advanced filters (even regex). It's a very nice client. The trouble with it is it's too ingrained with Plasma and if you aren't running a Plasma desktop then you probably won't like it as much. It's also buggy at times. If you use anything else or switch desktops, stick with Thunderbird.

                    Apple Mail:
                    It's a simple client that works pretty well in macOS and integrates well into the desktop. It has a very attractive interface and it's quite usable.. but it has very limited options. Like most of Apple's software you have to use it the way they want you to and don't provide a lot of modification. And if you use it, you got to use iCal, and iContacts, and iTunes and iWipemybutt. However.. If Thunderbird was looking for a client UI to emulate.. this is the one. It's message list and sender/subject layout is perfect and super readable.

                    Outlook:
                    What a mess. I don't know how people use this at all. It's utterly confusing.. I've seriously tried, I have no idea what Microsoft is doing.. it's almost like they have never seen another email client before or spend all day looking at it and think it's normal. I swear nothing is where it should be, the ribbon is practically useless and overwhelms the user with options they will never use and actually important objects are thrown all over the window or hidden in the frames. It also hackes up the syntax of the messages and even hides parts of it (like gpg) from the user. 100% trash. Reminds me of Lotus Notes, only worse.

                    Thunderbird:
                    It's not great.. but it's less bad than the above. I'd like to see them add support for CoI chat. Business communication is in a crises right now (Slack, Teams, Rocket Chat, Riot) CoI is a simple solution that solves this and it does so inter-organization.
                    Last edited by k1e0x; 29 January 2020, 04:06 PM.

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                    • #30
                      Originally posted by Mez' View Post
                      Contrary to you, I'll never be as egocentric as to believe my opinion is encompassing or representing others'. I always make clear it's "just my opinion". I'm not trying to extrapolate it to others with just a few references to loud voices (and we know about the silent majority) and a couple of links.
                      This is really annoying in the comments section nowadays that some people always extrapolate what they express as an opinion to be the single version of the truth. They said it, so it's a general thing... Their weak argument has to be enforced to make believe it has more weight than what it really has (just an opinion).
                      I've provided evidence to support my strongly supported argument. You continue to assert yours, while denying my evidence, and not providing any of your own. Egocentric? Or "just your opinion"? Indeed.

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