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The Linux Kernel Code of Conduct Committee Begins Offering Regular Reports

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  • #11
    4 issues in a year?
    thats clearly the worlds worst environment to work at. (That is what feminists tell you why they didnt study IT but gender studies....)

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    • #12
      Linus and the maintainers are a bunch of cucks for accepting this shit nonsense on kernel.

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      • #13
        Originally posted by r08z View Post
        This is so stupid and unnecessary.
        Well. Otherwise the stupid and unnecessary people wouldn't have anything to do you see.
        So they create their own spaces. Spaces where they can motivate their existence by blaming their incompetence on others.

        It's the mode du jour. It's what all modern enterprises are made of. Layers and layers of rubbish.

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        • #14
          So we're going to risk the future of the linux kernel on 0.01% of emails upsetting somebody in a undisclosed way. I look forward to Hartman looking for a new job when he misgenders his next email.

          A closed system controlling open source development. Sure. That makes sense. What could go wrong.

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          • #15
            Originally posted by k1l_ View Post
            4 issues in a year?
            thats clearly the worlds worst environment to work at. (That is what feminists tell you why they didnt study IT but gender studies....)
            Exactly its now going to be documented how well behaved in general the Linux kernel development is. There have been a handful of edge cases. Linus being the biggest of those.

            Originally posted by Mario Junior View Post
            Linus and the maintainers are a bunch of cucks for accepting this shit nonsense on kernel.
            This more shows how stupid you are.

            Kernel.org core servers are in the USA. Following is USA labour law requirements.
            https://www.usa.gov/labor-laws#item-192580
            then compare to
            https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/late...f-conduct.html

            Yes like it or not the code of conduct is basically a statement of the USA labour law. If your workplace in the USA does not have a system to deal with breaches internally of the USA labour law a person technically can go to the courts and get a order to cease all operations of the workplace because it unsafe.

            Reality is this is not a case of accept this is a case if you want to stay operating at some point you just have to accept the law of the land where you are. Linux kernel development had a good run ignoring the law of the land it was in.

            Originally posted by ThoreauHD View Post
            So we're going to risk the future of the linux kernel on 0.01% of emails upsetting somebody in a undisclosed way. I look forward to Hartman looking for a new job when he misgenders his next email.

            A closed system controlling open source development. Sure. That makes sense. What could go wrong.
            Again USA labour law the system for handling employee and volunteer complaints is required to be closed. This is a legal requirement so sorry there has to be a closed system or the open source development is in fact at risk.
            The Code of Conduct Committee is obligated to maintain confidentiality with regard to the reporter of an incident.
            This bit of the code of conduct is in fact mandatory by USA law as well as many other countries around the world.

            USA labour laws make it optional for organisation to give volunteer right to appeal or that proper investigating is performed or even the right to know why they were rejected.
            All complaints will be reviewed and investigated and will result in a response that is deemed necessary and appropriate to the circumstances.
            So this complete line with the Linux kernel code of conduct optional. The project by law could have gone a really simple policy any complain as a volunteer you are out. Please note other than those working directly for the Linux foundation everyone one else would legally be classed as a volunteer even that they are employee by other companies todo the work. Horrible reality this means if someone goes to court with a complaint against a volunteer(in Linux kernel case is like 99% of the people legally) and the organisation has no policy there is no requirement for the court to judge of they complaint is real or bogus so a bogus complaint could have been used to shut the servers down.

            Really no code of conduct is way worse and was truly risking the future of the Linux kernel.

            Also code of conduct enforcement documentation over time could be used to say Linux kernel developers are well enough behaved that Linux kernel development could be part of a normal high school course to enable developing future kernel developers.




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            • #16
              these numbers so far show the CoC isn't being abused or causing any sweeping shift in behavior.
              They show it was a pointless, ideologically driven decision.

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              • #17
                Hmm. On the one hand they rail against the CoC because it is a conspiracy of elitist SJWs crushing all dissent and enforcing a draconian ideology that will destroy and drive out all their precious creative bodily fluids, on the other hand, this absolutely anodyne status report indicates that is not happening, so it just then must be stupid and unnecessary...
                I suppose it's unpossible that (a solution to a perceived problem ) is working just as intended (managed by) well-intentioned people.
                Last edited by set135; 01-05-2020, 02:34 AM. Reason: Fixed garbleage.

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                • #18
                  Originally posted by Templar82 View Post
                  They show it was a pointless, ideologically driven decision.
                  No does not show that at all.

                  Originally posted by set135 View Post
                  Hmm. On the one hand they rail against the CoC because it is a conspiracy of elitist SJWs crushing all dissent and enforcing a draconian ideology that will destroy and drive out all their precious creative bodily fluids, on the other hand, this absolutely anodyne status report indicates that is not happening, so it just then must be stupid and unnecessary...
                  I suppose it's unpossible that it is working just as intended by well-intentioned people.
                  https://lkml.org/lkml/2018/9/16/167

                  This is Linus own write up on the topic. The idea that it comes from SJW is not based in facts it more Linus looked at himself and worked out it was unprofessional. Also what Linus had been doing was also not conforming to USA laws on either.

                  https://www.usa.gov/labor-laws#item-192580
                  Also go read the USA labour law. Heck your own countries either labour law or work place health and safety law on it as well.

                  After you spend time reading over law you will find what in the CoC any employee/volunteer in the USA should really obeying anyhow and most countries around the world at least 95% of it if not 100 percent. We really should not see any major changes in Linux kernel developer behaviour at all as most of them would have been required to follow the rules by their employer even if the CoC did not exist on the Linux kernel.

                  Yes there has been a lot of claims over the place that the Linux kernel would be taken over by SJWs and that kind of stuff completely missing that is a legal requirement to be there and 90%+ of the Linux kernel developers have to obey the rules in the CoC by their employers.

                  Yes Linus bad language has in past caused emails about problems at different companies for emails to go into I am blocked for offensive language.

                  The rules in the CoC are not just about SJW stuff. CoC is also really about what do you have todo so when you email a issue with someone submitted patch that it in fact makes it though the company email system they are at to them.

                  There have been a lot of complaints about Linus bad language over the years disrupting productivity that Linus had been able to ignore as well.

                  Only major change is the biggest offender Linus has stopped. I will expect a handful of cases a year from people who their countries legal system does not align. You can look at the LKML mailing list history and filter it for bad words the result will be 95 percent or greater of the Linux kernel developers never have written anything that breaches CoC from start of Linux to now. So kernel developers have mostly been obeying the rules with or without the CoC. So CoC really only effects a very small minority of Linux kernel developers but there is another problem..

                  There are way more developers per year effected by them not getting offensive email from Linus because it was filtered somewhere and re-posting updated version of patch without the issues Linus raised fixed leading to even more Linus anger than number of developers doing posts that would breach CoC. This really was not good for Linus or the developer coding the patch or for the over all development of Linux. So really the biggest problem was get Linus to improve his language so his emails don't get taken out by company spam filters/anti-abuse filters.

                  So over all the CoC is a net positive for Linux kernel development particularly after you have data mined the LKML list to validate ideas of what the issue is.

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                  • #19
                    It's sad to think that there are people there getting paid for reading through all Linux related communication, and then "educating" people who don't follow their crappy CoC. Someone should reconsider whether what these killjoys do is worth the money and time spent on it, especially if they catch 1 incident out of almost 10k messages.

                    This is just a waste of everyone's time, that will drive people away. If I were to spend my time contributing to Linux (and I'm not planning to for now due to real name stuff, and me anticipating a change), I'd prefer to not be speech policed, especially considering that Torvalds' only saving grace was his attitude. It's almost like there's nothing positive left about the kernel, it's just getting worse with every release, and people who work on it have to put up with this crap. This was supposed to be a free software project and not corporate hell.

                    Comment


                    • #20
                      Originally posted by oiaohm View Post

                      Exactly its now going to be documented how well behaved in general the Linux kernel development is. There have been a handful of edge cases. Linus being the biggest of those.



                      This more shows how stupid you are.

                      Kernel.org core servers are in the USA. Following is USA labour law requirements.
                      https://www.usa.gov/labor-laws#item-192580
                      then compare to
                      https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/late...f-conduct.html

                      Yes like it or not the code of conduct is basically a statement of the USA labour law. If your workplace in the USA does not have a system to deal with breaches internally of the USA labour law a person technically can go to the courts and get a order to cease all operations of the workplace because it unsafe.

                      Reality is this is not a case of accept this is a case if you want to stay operating at some point you just have to accept the law of the land where you are. Linux kernel development had a good run ignoring the law of the land it was in.



                      Again USA labour law the system for handling employee and volunteer complaints is required to be closed. This is a legal requirement so sorry there has to be a closed system or the open source development is in fact at risk.

                      This bit of the code of conduct is in fact mandatory by USA law as well as many other countries around the world.

                      USA labour laws make it optional for organisation to give volunteer right to appeal or that proper investigating is performed or even the right to know why they were rejected.


                      So this complete line with the Linux kernel code of conduct optional. The project by law could have gone a really simple policy any complain as a volunteer you are out. Please note other than those working directly for the Linux foundation everyone one else would legally be classed as a volunteer even that they are employee by other companies todo the work. Horrible reality this means if someone goes to court with a complaint against a volunteer(in Linux kernel case is like 99% of the people legally) and the organisation has no policy there is no requirement for the court to judge of they complaint is real or bogus so a bogus complaint could have been used to shut the servers down.

                      Really no code of conduct is way worse and was truly risking the future of the Linux kernel.

                      Also code of conduct enforcement documentation over time could be used to say Linux kernel developers are well enough behaved that Linux kernel development could be part of a normal high school course to enable developing future kernel developers.



                      Why would they legally consider themselves to be an employer though? You can separate into multiple companies or organizations to dissolve the whole problem. Have a non-profit that hosts the infrastructure, the foundation for people who are directly paid for working on the kernel, and then let companies like them and Samsung create their own CoC hells that people can choose to work in. I can imagine someone's PR getting denied because they used a no-no word in their message for it.

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