Debian Developers Decide On Init System Diversity: "Proposal B" Wins

[rbmorse]

Lost... what exactly? As if it's an ongoing battle or something lol.

No, his argument (?) is that the entire voting event was a thinly veiled effort by systemd proponents to ram option 1 down the community's collective throat. Because it didn't win, systemd lost.

I don't understand it, either.

[wizard69]

I DON'T LIKE THE THEME A DISTRO USES SO IM GONNA FORK IT JUST TO CHANGE THE DEFAULT THEME.

half of distros right there.

Half of those distros Tend to be the result of thin skinned people that can’t tolerate an opinion different that theirs.

one can see it in this thread, somebody brings up something that MacOS or Windows does well and people flip out saying we want Linux to be like Windows. Frankly an ignorant response from people that can’t see positives in other systems.

[starshipeleven]

nobody said anything at all about victory!

You just said:
Actually if people read the voting results SystemD won by a landslide.

The rest of your post is therefore invalid and I'm not going to read it.

[Paul Frederick]

Everyone does like systemd, that's why every distro that isn't 5 or so fringe distros use it. Yes, systemd is trying to be a complete OS, because Linux isn't. Windows is a complete OS, it has it's own standard API interface with services, registry, windowing API, everything. Same for macOS. Linux does not have this, it has a fractured, broken community where there are 10 different standards for every API you can think of and none of them are compatible. People do not want this, they want systemd. Linux is not Unix, it is not a hobby OS anymore, it is a real, industry standard with measurable market presence, even in the desktop sector, however meager that is currently. And rejecting systemd is not going to help that, it's going to hurt it. If you want a hobby OS where everything is incompatible, there are plenty out there for you. There's no reason to latch on to Linux to enforce it to stay a fractured mess just as there's equally no reason for you to do that to Windows or macOS.

I don't want SystemD. What you are referring to as Linux, is in fact, GNU/Linux, or as I've recently taken to calling it, GNU plus Linux. Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning GNU system made useful by the GNU corelibs, shell utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by POSIX.
Many computer users run a modified version of the GNU system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of GNU which is widely used today is often called "Linux", and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the GNU system, developed by the GNU Project.

There really is a Linux, and these people are using it, but it is just a part of the system they use. Linux is the kernel: the program in the system that allocates the machine's resources to the other programs that you run. The kernel is an essential part of an operating system, but useless by itself; it can only function in the context of a complete operating system. Linux is normally used in combination with the GNU operating system: the whole system is basically GNU with Linux added, or GNU/Linux. All the so-called "Linux" distributions are really distributions of GNU/Linux.

I latched onto Linux 24 years ago kiddo and don't think I'm happy when brats like you try to rip it away from me now.

[Britoid]

I don't want SystemD. What you are referring to as Linux, is in fact, GNU/Linux, or as I've recently taken to calling it, GNU plus Linux. Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning GNU system made useful by the GNU corelibs, shell utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by POSIX.
Many computer users run a modified version of the GNU system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of GNU which is widely used today is often called "Linux", and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the GNU system, developed by the GNU Project.

There really is a Linux, and these people are using it, but it is just a part of the system they use. Linux is the kernel: the program in the system that allocates the machine's resources to the other programs that you run. The kernel is an essential part of an operating system, but useless by itself; it can only function in the context of a complete operating system. Linux is normally used in combination with the GNU operating system: the whole system is basically GNU with Linux added, or GNU/Linux. All the so-called "Linux" distributions are really distributions of GNU/Linux.

I latched onto Linux 24 years ago kiddo and don't think I'm happy when brats like you try to rip it away from me now.

I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you’re referring to as Linux, is in fact, systemd/Linux, or as I’ve recently taken to calling it, systemd plus Linux. Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning systemd system made useful by the systemd binaries, audio server and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by Lennart Poettering.

[Paul Frederick]

I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you’re referring to as Linux, is in fact, systemd/Linux, or as I’ve recently taken to calling it, systemd plus Linux. Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning systemd system made useful by the systemd binaries, audio server and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by Lennart Poettering.

Nobody's made me want to take up bus driving more than Poettering has. I'm a careless driver too! Do you know if he walks a lot, and if so where? If people don't like how I drive they should keep off the sidewalk.

[tuxd3v]

You'll get a flimsy init script that will break after an update and the original author is no longer around to fix it which will put extra work on a package maintainer that they shouldn't have to do.

Your comment doesn't make any sense at all..
The effort for a init script, of for a systemd script that brakes, were the author is not available anymore.....................

wow can't find your logic..
Wouldn't both situations put work in the maintainer?

What the maintainer should do? drop the systemd script? in the case of systemd remember there are 2 scripts... the real script and the unit file..

[Britoid]

Your comment doesn't make any sense at all..
The effort for a init script, of for a systemd script that brakes, were the author is not available anymore.....................

wow can't find your logic..
Wouldn't both situations put work in the maintainer?

What the maintainer should do? drop the systemd script? in the case of systemd remember there are 2 scripts... the real script and the unit file..

systemd unit files are often supplied by upstream

rarely any systemd units in the last 5 years use shell scripts, I guess you haven't used systemd in a while.

[finalzone]

I don't want SystemD. What you are referring to as Linux, is in fact, GNU/Linux, or as I've recently taken to calling it, GNU plus Linux. Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning GNU system made useful by the GNU corelibs, shell utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by POSIX.

Why not building your own distribution based on Linux from Scratch or using operating system like Alpine, Void or Gentoo rather than complaining on Debian developers chosing systemd as the main service management for Linux kernel? We are talking about core components. On other topic, you carefully avoid answering an trivial question thus refusing an help because you knew your issue had nothing do with systemd.

[trek]

Linux is not Unix, it is not a hobby OS anymore, it is a real, industry standard with measurable market presence, even in the desktop sector, however meager that is currently.

just like unix was an hobby OS: unix never was an hobby OS, but it was the industry standard for decades