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Debian Developers Decide On Init System Diversity: "Proposal B" Wins

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Ironmask View Post

    systemd is already encompassing networking and device functionality and will probably further extend from there. That is definitely a standardization end-users can appreciate. Systemd already has the capabilities to essentially replicate the Windows Registry, which, no matter how much criticism that architecture gets, is preferable to a few hundred XML/INI/conf files scattered throughout a labyrinthine filesystem (that was the entire reason the Registry was invented).
    End user do not know anything about network management nor devices handling. And the Windows Registry is just an horrible thing to use. Editing config files is much easier. Config files are also NOT in a "labyrinthine filesystem", they are well sorted in /etc and its subfolders (including systemd's config files !).
    As I said, if you like Windows so much, go buy it !
    Last edited by ALRBP; 28 December 2019, 03:04 AM.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by ALRBP View Post
      End user do not know anything about network management nor devices handling. And the Windows Registry is just an horrible thing to use. Editing config files is much easier. Config files are also NOT in a "labyrinthine filesystem", they are well sorted in /etc and its subfolders (including systemd's config files !).
      End users invariably have to understand what networking and registry is and does. I even see facebook moms and dads having to mess with those these days. And configs definitely are not relegated to one simple directory, I was just discussing this in the Redox OS repository issue sections last year where they were trying to figure out how to better centralize system directories and explicitly not make the same mistakes Linux did when installing software. They can be in /etc, they can be in their own folder, their install folder, a completely different folder. Have you ever even had to configure a system before? Windows has these exact same problems 30 years ago before they developed the Registry.

      Originally posted by ALRBP View Post
      As I said, if you like Windows so much, go buy it !
      That attitude is exactly why Linux has less than 1% desktop marketshare. You know what? I will go use Windows, thanks. Tell me when Linux gets some standardized APIs to accelerate developers so it can start actually being usable. Until then I don't see much reason to use it over TempleOS.

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      • #33
        Now we just have to sit back and wait for the patches to come 'flooding' in to support other init systems. I won't hold my breath.

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        • #34
          Very good news.

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          • #35
            Ive used both and honestly just hope there remains choices in the future incase systemd were to really piss me off someday.

            It clearly takes stabs at modern problems and that's great when other options are rusting, bit I'd hate to live in a world where there is only one option and dev monopoly of users like "lol, we are the only option you gotta accepy our outlandish crazy ideas we code in"

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            • #36
              Originally posted by ElectricPrism View Post
              Ive used both and honestly just hope there remains choices in the future incase systemd were to really piss me off someday.

              It clearly takes stabs at modern problems and that's great when other options are rusting, bit I'd hate to live in a world where there is only one option and dev monopoly of users like "lol, we are the only option you gotta accepy our outlandish crazy ideas we code in"
              I understand that concern, but we've been dealing with that from Linux and GNOME for the past two decades now and neither have been catastrophic.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Ironmask View Post

                systemd is already encompassing networking and device functionality and will probably further extend from there. That is definitely a standardization end-users can appreciate. Systemd already has the capabilities to essentially replicate the Windows Registry, which, no matter how much criticism that architecture gets, is preferable to a few hundred XML/INI/conf files scattered throughout a labyrinthine filesystem (that was the entire reason the Registry was invented).
                When you say registry, it makes it sound like systemd is copying the Window Registrys database model, which I don't think anyone wants and is the cause of most registry problems. I dont think that's happening.

                The INI-like unit files though are amazing though and don't force people to learn a shell language in order to create a system service, unlike the ancient systems.

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                • #38
                  Once again, the sane majority decided against SystemD(efeat) !

                  A list of non-systemd distributions as of Oct 2019:
                  https://sysdfree.wordpress.com/2019/10/12/135/

                  Merry Christmas and Happy New Year 2020 !

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by ElectricPrism View Post
                    Ive used both and honestly just hope there remains choices in the future incase systemd were to really piss me off someday.

                    It clearly takes stabs at modern problems and that's great when other options are rusting, bit I'd hate to live in a world where there is only one option and dev monopoly of users like "lol, we are the only option you gotta accepy our outlandish crazy ideas we code in"
                    I think most proponents of systemd would agree with you. The systemd unit files are descriptive and generic enough that it should be relatively easy for another service manager to be able to read and use them, which I is great for longevity. I think there's already projects coming out that can actually do this.

                    It's funny though how the accounts with few posts start coming out on these threads trying to troll.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by dkasak View Post
                      Now we just have to sit back and wait for the patches to come 'flooding' in to support other init systems. I won't hold my breath.
                      You'll get a flimsy init script that will break after an update and the original author is no longer around to fix it which will put extra work on a package maintainer that they shouldn't have to do.

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