Systemd 244 Released With New Init System Features For Black Friday

[aht0]

It's a more complex phenomenon.
There is no "Linux OS", you can assemble whatever you want on top of Linux kernel.

Technically speaking, stuff like GNOME or KDE or whatever are not officially "linux core components". As are most other userspace components.

What is happening now is that this "neutrality" is decreasing, and even disappearing for some of these components.

Yep, problem isn't so much Linux moving "back", "forward" or "it's own way", I wouldn't give rats ass about it. "Neutrality" and "compatibility" of the software is disappearing.

BSD init systems use scripts so porting init scripts is easy.

Slackware Linux is good example here. While not actually using BSD init, it's using RC-style scripts in it's init process. Compared to usual linked mess SysV init script's caused, it's pretty draconian in it's comparative simplicity.
So, in effect, GNU/Linux made it's init a mess and punishes now "everybody else" for it's own past mistakes by adopting even messier "better forward-moving progressive ultraCoolTM init-service-manager-asswipersüstiimD"

It's technically a piece of cake to port systemd service files too, so init system per-se is not the thing here.

The issue is Linux kernel features used, either alone or through some helper daemons that are of course linux-specific (like Logind) and require a fork to be made generic (like Elogind)

Problem is systemd internal messy nature, it's written in a way it's hard to emulate with alternatives.

No it isn't but from their side it looks like being left behind.

Depends on a personal view. In my eyes:
Solaris/OpenIndiana is being left behind. BSD is where Linux was right before systemd made it's appearance - development is controlled by different model and bunch of companies can't simply "take over". GNU/Linux has become a literal rape-victim. Handful of huge companies do pretty much whatever the hell they want with Linux to better their business - until their submitted code conforms to standards Torvalds does not seem to care, with one of those companies literally vendor-locking out alternatives by way of introducing systemd.
Individual users are left like rats stealing breadcrumbs from their table. You can talk whatever the hell you want about "developing alternatives - if you don't like this" - but cold sad truth is - you won't develop comparable init system/service manager alone or even with handful of friends/devs unpaid out of your free time and without company resources behind you throwing weight around. Red Hat/IBM is nowadays literally 300-pounds gorilla dictating terms. Let me remind you: business entity primarily cares about it's profit. It's activities start and end with that consideration.

This (not just systemd) is forcing otherwise unrelated opensource projects to choose a side, as if they want to use features offered by systemd or other non-portable Linux distro components for convenience, fun and profit then they have to maintain multiple fallbacks if they want to have "kernel freedom", and this relies on the fact that someone actually cares enough to do so, and maintain that in the upstream.
So it will not be "official", but the porting effort will become harder and harder, and the minority projects will not be able to manage it anymore, effectively cutting them out.

See the issues Debian is facing by trying to uphold their "init freedom".

Nailed it.

This process is defining what will become the "Linux OS" in the future, and everything that will choose the "Linux OS" side will not be usable anymore by the minorities.

Lindows, pretty much, gradually GNU components will be replaced by systemd components and in effect you end up with systemd/Linux. That seems to be direction things are headed. Since internal config settings have become so multi-layered and complicated, everything has to be driven by GUI's.

More distant future : Google Fuchsia may cause havoc. seems it's microkernel is written with the intent of supporting arm64 AND x86_64 both, so theoretically it could replace Linux kernel once it's mature enough and usable. If it has enough virtues, It's Zircon microkernel (and rest of the Fuchsia) are open-source and under BSD/MIT-style license.

[starshipeleven]

So, in effect, GNU/Linux made it's init a mess and punishes now "everybody else"

There is no punishment, just no fucks given.

Problem is systemd internal messy nature, it's written in a way it's hard to emulate with alternatives.

You shouldn't talk of things you don't know.

Depends on a personal view. In my eyes:

Your vision is wrong.
Slowlaris died long ago, Openindiana is a hobby OS, BSDs are on the way towards becoming hobby OS.

Linux is progressing, and has active development going on in major areas, and plenty of butthurt people shit talking about it in forums.

Red Hat/IBM is nowadays literally 300-pounds gorilla dictating terms.

Their terms are pretty good for most actual users and administrators.

Also SUSE's.

Even Canonical is more active and useful than all BSDs combined.

Lindows, pretty much, gradually GNU components will be replaced by systemd components and in effect you end up with systemd/Linux.

Considering that the only decent thing the GNU project maintains is the GCC, I don't see that as a bad thing.

But I'm sure you have no idea of what GNU project does at all and you are just talking out of your ass about ideological stuff.

Since internal config settings have become so multi-layered and complicated, everything has to be driven by GUI's.

More talking of things you have no idea of.

More distant future : Google Fuchsia may cause havoc. seems it's microkernel is written with the intent of supporting arm64 AND x86_64 both, so theoretically it could replace Linux kernel once it's mature enough and usable. If it has enough virtues, It's Zircon microkernel (and rest of the Fuchsia) are open-source and under BSD/MIT-style license.

Lol, you complain about the Linux community because there are a few heavy weights but most stuff works regardless of their whims and people can still enjoy all flavors of systems but you are ready to embrace a monolithic OS (it's exactly as monolithic as systemd) made exclusively by and for Google, because it's totally not going to push everything they want down your throat with 0 opposition just like Windows does, regardless of the license.

If you don't like it fork it.... lolololol. Except you can't outcompete Google with a handful of friends coding in weekends.

What a fucking joke you posted

[starshipeleven]

starshipeleven Kernel freedom, init freedom and desktop freedom is all going away. And some of us really, really love it

The only thing going away is kernel freedom

[arokh]

Did debianxfce just reincarnate into this aht0 character? Like always, the only ones opposing systemd are paranoid, delusional and have absolutely no fucking clue.

Meanwhile, I just booted into systemd 244 and it's a delight. I can now decide in a service what CPUs it should run on, very practical.

PS: Screw these "minorities" everybody is suddenly talking about, they can all move to Devuan which seems like the right place for them.

[LoneVVolf]

Like always, the only ones opposing systemd are paranoid, delusional and have absolutely no fucking clue.

I dislike many parts of systemd and am trying to have systemd & openrc coexist on archlinux so users can choose either.

I am somewhat paranoid according to friends, but not delusional or "have no clue" .

Your remarks are bad for systemds supporters AND opposers.

[arokh]

Well, do you oppose systemd? In that case, what are the reasons?

[LoneVVolf]

Many reasons, but the main one is that systemd takes control away from local admins.

man systemd.generator

systemd.gpt-auto-generator is an example of a generator I don't need and don't want, but there's no mechanism to disable any generator.

After a lot of searching and asking for help I finally found a workaround to boot to EFI without having to run gpt-auto-generator :
use an Efi System Partition on a MBR disk.

[azdaha]

Considering that the only decent thing the GNU project maintains is the GCC, I don't see that as a bad thing.

Although, plenty of other GNU software is still necessary and has been since the beginning of Linux.

• glibc (musl might become feasible alternative)
• coreutils ( e.g. ls, rm, cat, ... )
• util-linux ( kill, mount, fsck, fdisk, ... )

Additionally, there are historic and contemporary use-cases where other tools and libs are used e.g. readline, gettext (though, they might be part of one of the previously-mentioned packages).

[finalzone]

Many reasons, but the main one is that systemd takes control away from local admins.

Systemd gives more power to the local admins by taking core process that can get easily automated and giving them more room focusing other issues.
Anyone complaining about a system manager for a kernel seemly taking away control without clearly understanding the functionality giving them more power should never work as local admin in a first place.

man systemd.generator

systemd.gpt-auto-generator is an example of a generator I don't need and don't want, but there's no mechanism to disable any generator.

Which distribution do you run for such purpose and what alternative approach are you aiming for?

After a lot of searching and asking for help I finally found a workaround to boot to EFI without having to run gpt-auto-generator :
use an Efi System Partition on a MBR disk.

Wait a second, the complain was about booting EFI System Partition on a MBR disk? Really? That is a special case. Systemd was made for modern distribution running on modern hardware in mind without the burden of legacy stuff.

[starshipeleven]

Although, plenty of other GNU software is still necessary and has been since the beginning of Linux.

• glibc (musl might become feasible alternative)
• coreutils ( e.g. ls, rm, cat, ... )
• util-linux ( kill, mount, fsck, fdisk, ... )

Additionally, there are historic and contemporary use-cases where other tools and libs are used e.g. readline, gettext (though, they might be part of one of the previously-mentioned packages).

Yes, I'm saying I'm not happy about their quality and I wouldn't mind replacing them with something better.