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Debian Moves Closer To Voting On Proposals Over Init System Diversity

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  • #21
    Originally posted by coder View Post
    Even if you don't expect the discussion to be worthwhile, I fail to see how this is remotely constructive. If you don't have anything useful to say and you're so certain this will be a waste of time, why did you even click on the comments link, let alone decide to post?
    As a disclaimer, a warning to others.

    What matters is the opinions of admins, maintainers, developers, and others who have to deal a lot with systemd or its alternatives.
    Which is the main reason most distros made the switch.

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    • #22
      Originally posted by jacob View Post

      That's exactly right and it's the reason why Unix and Unix-like philosophies should be ditched once and for all.
      Unix phylosophy isn't what systemd haters think it is. Systemd project is much more close to unix phylosophy than relying on scripts controlling dumb tool applications ever was.

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      • #23
        Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
        Lol no that's not like that. Being modular does not automatically mean kept together by duct tape (shell script).
        Then again, you don't want to create a framework that makes developers look elsewhere, just to avoid a year long discussion with a committee to support their use case.

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        • #24
          Haha, finally the dust starts to settle. The systemd-phobes tried to convince the whole world there's an impending doom if we dump the alternatives. Unfortunately that doom just failed to come. We all switched to systemd without anyone ever noticing anything. Not that it wasn't obvious. An init system isn't something that users care about. Or should care about, for that matter. It's really not in their realm. Much like no one cared when Debian switched to eglibc. Or when they moved back to glibc. I mean who cares, I'm using Firefox, not systemd. Or glibc. Or whatever cherry picked part in the toolchain having absolutely no impact on my work.

          At this point it's just a matter of time before this kind of tomfoolery dies off. I give Devuan maybe another 2 years before giving up due to lack of interest and resources. Good riddance.

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          • #25
            Originally posted by pmorph View Post
            Then again, you don't want to create a framework that makes developers look elsewhere, just to avoid a year long discussion with a committee to support their use case.
            The overwhelming amount of application developers aren't interacting with systemd at all (it's more a distro maintainer thing), so I'm not sure how this relates to the topic.

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            • #26
              Originally posted by jabl View Post

              There's certainly value in having choice and diversity, all else being equal. But in reality, all else is never equal. Debian might very well decide that their users and free software are better served by having one well working, supported and documented init system rather than 27 poorly working ones.
              Yes they can, if that is the case.

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              • #27
                Originally posted by moilami View Post

                Yes they can, if that is the case.
                It seems very well to be.

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                • #28
                  Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
                  The overwhelming amount of application developers aren't interacting with systemd at all (it's more a distro maintainer thing), so I'm not sure how this relates to the topic.
                  That branch of the discussion started when someone insisted that "Unix and Unix-like philosophies should be ditched once and for all".

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                  • #29
                    Originally posted by anarki2 View Post
                    At this point it's just a matter of time before this kind of tomfoolery dies off. I give Devuan maybe another 2 years before giving up due to lack of interest and resources. Good riddance.
                    If the result of this GR is that Debian stops support non-systemd inits, this will mean the immediate death of Devuan. No need to wait for two years then.

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                    • #30
                      Originally posted by pmorph View Post
                      That branch of the discussion started when someone insisted that "Unix and Unix-like philosophies should be ditched once and for all".
                      The same thing I said above also applies to Unix and Unix phylosophies.

                      Actual applications care about OS APIs, and almost always there is no chance in hell that a developer can ask the OS developers to add or tweak the APIs.

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