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GNU Project Developers Debate A Restructuring As A "Bottom Up" Organization

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  • skeevy420
    replied
    Originally posted by hotaru View Post

    claiming that pedophilia and sexual harassment are ok just because they're common on the internet is beyond fucked up.
    Saying something is common is not the same thing as saying it's ok.

    People on heroin are common right now. Doesn't mean it's ok. The same thing is true of internet harassers once they see a reason to harass over is all I got from that post.

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  • skeevy420
    replied
    Originally posted by fuzz View Post

    There was a news article about a white woman who transitioned to a male and tried to become an officer of their college diversity board.

    The people in the university then tried to get rid of them, saying they were unfit to be an officer of said diversity board because they were a white male.

    These fuckers are eating themselves alive, and it's hilarious.

    https://www.nationalreview.com/2014/...white-man-now/
    That is funny. Even funnier is the fine details. While the headline says "transgender", all the article mentions is "Identifies as" and all that is is a crossdresser with an attitude about pronouns when you really get down to it.

    Still, though, agreeing with what starshipeleven said, if a girl goes to an all girls school and identifies as a guy, that's on them for identifying as the one thing that place is against regardless of skin color. That would be like Johnny Microsoft applying for the position of Moderator and Article Writer at Phoronix -- Because you just know Johnny Microsoft has the best interests of Linux users at heart.

    Takes a bong hit: I wish that "identifies as" worked legally so I could identify as a legal immigrant fleeing communism and religious oppression to get easier access to grant money for starting a business and owning a home than I can as just a white dude. Apparently every single white dude is equally privileged with money and power...I never got the memo and none of them have invited me to the club

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  • AsuMagic
    replied
    ... What's up with the spam filter? Yet another unapproved post.

    Leave a comment:


  • AsuMagic
    replied
    Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
    If you go on other well-known public places with decent anonymity like Imgur and say you are a woman you get a ton of PMs with dick pics too from random people.

    And it's common enough on Facebook that "send me pics of bobs and vegana" has achieved meme status https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/bobs-and-vegana

    That's a generalized problem with public places on the internet, GNU mailing list isn't alone.
    Based on the assumption that the story is legitimate...
    How widespread the problem is is absolutely not a factor that should matter at all.
    The sender of those mails were very aware that the recipient was way underage. Sexual harassment is one thing, but pedophilia is yet another step further on the scale of utter lack of morality.
    I have no idea whether people higher in the hierarchy are aware of such behavior, or whether she reported it at all - I believe not, and hope not since it would mean that no action was ever taken.
    What would really happen if that were the case though? Would they just ignore? Shrug it off? Warn that guy and tell him to not be mean next time?
    If that issue was that widespread surely we would have heard about developers kicked off a similar project for harassment. I honestly never really heard of that, feel free to correct me.
    Besides, a professional setting is definitively different from a random message board in that regard. There is no anonymity. There is moderation that can and should intervene.
    Because if that were me, I would instantly kick off a project someone who I am aware does that. No second thoughts. I honestly wouldn't care if that were their job.
    By not doing anything, or even just merely threaten or warn the harasser, you obviously enable those things to happen and ultimately cause the ambiance to be extremely hostile to women.
    Those are big ifs though. I don't know if in this particular case or if in general the developers' hierarchy even suspects what they do.
    I absolutely wouldn't judge them in this context for that very reason.

    Besides if you admit the problem is more widespread you only really prove that women are harrassed in general on the internet and in IT.
    IMO the example set by rms and the general ambiance in such open source projects absolutely contributes to women being a minority, and an actively attacked minority at that.
    It's absolutely not just about dumb benign jokes like "lol I thought women didn't exist in IT" or whatever.

    God forbid that you are a transgender and/or just anything LGBT+, because then you get insulted and mocked every day.
    Not talking about you in particular here (I don't know where you stand there):
    Bashing SJWs might sure give some fun but the issue is that FAR from the minority they claim to defend has an opinion as extreme or misguided as many of the hardcore idiots. In fact their existence is almost justified by the amount of shit people in those minorities get, because most of the time people assimilates them with such groups.
    Some people on this forum just love to ignore that completely and repeatedly bash those people.
    Jesus, by any means shit on asshats who are essentially supremacists, but please let the rest live. They don't care to know whether you think it is a mental illness or not.

    Leave a comment:


  • hotaru
    replied
    Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
    Coding down complex concepts to be understood by people that have a completely different background or even not native english language readers is harder than you think.
    again, your lack of reading comprehension skills is not my problem. stop blaming others for your own shortcomings.

    Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
    Did you have decent proof that it was GNU people (even with a fake email account)?
    several of them had gnu.org email addresses.

    Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
    If you go on other well-known public places with decent anonymity like Imgur and say you are a woman you get a ton of PMs with dick pics too from random people.

    And it's common enough on Facebook that "send me pics of bobs and vegana" has achieved meme status https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/bobs-and-vegana

    That's a generalized problem with public places on the internet, GNU mailing list isn't alone.
    claiming that pedophilia and sexual harassment are ok just because they're common on the internet is beyond fucked up.

    Leave a comment:


  • starshipeleven
    replied
    Originally posted by fuzz View Post
    There was a news article about a white woman who transitioned to a male and tried to become an officer of their college diversity board.

    The people in the university then tried to get rid of them, saying they were unfit to be an officer of said diversity board because they were a white male.

    These fuckers are eating themselves alive, and it's hilarious.

    https://www.nationalreview.com/2014/...white-man-now/
    Well, their logic is not wrong.

    If he identifies as a white male and intends to be through with it, he is going to act like a true white male, and oppress black and women, and oppress twice the black women.

    No wonder all the other black women aiming for that ran for their lives.

    Leave a comment:


  • starshipeleven
    replied
    Originally posted by hotaru View Post
    I had no problem writing
    Yes you did. Writing isn't just pressing buttons on a keyboard, but encoding what you have in your head in a readable manner. Coding down complex concepts to be understood by people that have a completely different background or even not native english language readers is harder than you think.

    and just so you can be explicit about what you think is excusable, I'll tell you a little more about the one time I contributed to a GNU project. I was 15 years old. a bunch of grown men saw my name and on the email that contained the patch and decided to send me a bunch of pornographic photos of themselves and explicit descriptions of their sexual fantasies.
    With all due respect, I'll need more than that. The mailing list is public. Did you have decent proof that it was GNU people (even with a fake email account)?

    If you go on other well-known public places with decent anonymity like Imgur and say you are a woman you get a ton of PMs with dick pics too from random people.

    And it's common enough on Facebook that "send me pics of bobs and vegana" has achieved meme status https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/bobs-and-vegana

    That's a generalized problem with public places on the internet, GNU mailing list isn't alone.

    that's the kind of behavior you're saying I'm overreacting to.
    I fully believe that women can and do get harassed on the internet. I know gay males that get harassed too by other (usually older) gay males in their own internet messageboards and such too.

    I'm just not automatically believing that the degenerates that are harassing people are from GNU instead of randoms subscribed to that ML.

    Leave a comment:


  • fuzz
    replied
    Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
    it's far from a fully confirmed misogyny in that post, but feel free to assume a whole slew of things just to confirm your world view.
    Not sure what this is even supposed to mean. Someone is a moron, someone said it can very well be overreacting, I also cited my own experience that opensource projects are far from warm and welcoming even without pulling in gender and assumptions on that.
    There was a news article about a white woman who transitioned to a male and tried to become an officer of their college diversity board.

    The people in the university then tried to get rid of them, saying they were unfit to be an officer of said diversity board because they were a white male.

    These fuckers are eating themselves alive, and it's hilarious.

    https://www.nationalreview.com/2014/...white-man-now/
    Last edited by fuzz; 10-24-2019, 10:59 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Djhg2000
    replied
    Originally posted by Veto View Post

    Maybe. However, I didn't just refer to RMS' admirable fight for software freedom. From the man himself... https://sourceware.org/ml/libc-alpha.../msg00001.html

    The reality is, that software development has grown up and the adolescent boy behavior has to make way for a larger and more diverse community. That realization may not yet have reached all members of the old boys club - including the forum here
    So somehow defending a pun at the expense of politics (which by the way was kind of funny) is a sign of wanting politics. It's a bit like saying people using the expression "throwing someone under the bus" are being offensive to people who have been in traffic accidents, don't you think?

    Leave a comment:


  • moilami
    replied
    Originally posted by Lecedy View Post
    Finished reading the entire discuss chain from the link. Now...

    What I can glimpse from it is RMS and major maintainers should start searching and training their apprentices to reduce the key person risk factors on the GNU projects, reduce reliance on decisions made from FSF, and find a way to ensure that after the current generation leaves, the core principles of GNU project will be unchanging.

    Or am I missing something?
    No, you are not missing anything. That sounds like a sound plan. Keep it alive.

    Leave a comment:

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