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The FSF Is Re-Evaluating Its Relationship With The GNU

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  • #21
    Originally posted by AndyChow View Post
    So who's in charge of the FSF now? And whomever it is, can we vet them by going through the last two decades of their emails? Just in case they ever said or did anything someone somewhere doesn't approve, so we can toss them out.

    I'm very happy RMS didn't step down from GNU. These outrage mobs (fake outrage, mostly) are used to usurp power. All you have to do to is ignore them and they go away. Example: Chappelle's sticks and stones has a 99% user review. Turns out the outrage doesn't exist. It's all smoke and mirrors. We've let the 0.1% crazies take over the world.
    I agree, these outrage mobs have done nothing to help the free software community in comparison with RMS, he is one of the few visionaries in the world that have contributed to this cause.


    • #22
      Originally posted by mmmbop View Post

      I don't think we've ever stopped being on a moral crusade. Going back 50 years would ignore the moral police going after Bill Clinton for the Lewinsky scandal for example.
      And not only in America. Just think of Germany's dark past. There is a criminal procedure pending for a 94 year old former typist who worked in a concentration camp and they charge her of being an accessory to the murder (even though she wasn't involved in the murderings directly). In 2016 they convicted an accountant for the same charge with no direct involvement either. In that case our highest penal court revised his stance on this matter, before that it restricted criminal responsibility to people who were more involved in the killings. In my eye the new stance is way too broad.
      Last edited by ms178; 07 October 2019, 11:01 AM.


      • #23
        Nice way to completely halt anything productive. I am anti-gun, does that mean that I should refrain from using Linux, or contributing to it? There are quite a few pro-gun programmers that contribute. But you know what, I couldn't care less if a pro-gun programmer is working on my anti-gun server. As a matter of fact, I've now learned that a pro-gun fanatic is just a human too.
        Why do people make a political scene out of something that's pure science?
        There are a lot of anti-gay or anti-transexuals working on open source software. Does that mean gay people and transexuals should stop working on it due to bad reputation, or should the anti-gay and anti-transexuals stop working on it? And that's not even a weird question depending on which side of the earth you are coming from.
        Computer science is one of those departments where you leave behind your political view and you work together on a common solution.
        Anyway, did you know your precious software is probably used to kill "the bad guys", and "bad guys" is defined by whomever uses it to kill.
        It's a question I got during a project interview: Do you mind to work on software that actually helps to kill people (paraphrasing, it was more like software for defense purposes).
        So yeah, keep politics out of it.


        • #24
          If FSF was a marketing company it might be understandable, but as it stands i dont see how they can benefit from breaking up with GNU.

          They transformed the industry with their fanatical philosophy of freedom, they couldn't be bought, or corrupted, the industry reluctantly bent to their will. Now they are going to let themselves drown in the piss of another fanatic with an unrelated agenda.


          • #25
            Originally posted by skeevy420 View Post
            It's nothing more than the unintended (or intended?) side-effects of #MeToo and Cancel Culture. Unfortunately, we started punishing people for stuff that happened 20+ years ago which has made all sorts of organizations, not just the open-source ones, start to look at people under a microscope for anything they may or may not have said or done in the past that can even look bad. The problem is it was 20 years ago. Not that I don't feel bad for people, just that I'd say something a hell of a lot sooner than 20 years later if I was molested and harassed on a habitual basis and it just seems f*cking off that one would wait a decade or two to say something.
            This is the repeated mistake. We are not talking a new event at all this is you getting side tracked by non important crap.

            In the USA where GNU and FSF are based we are talking like "Occupational Safety and Health Act of 1970" where you are required to provide a safe working environment. This means those in management rolls have to understand what a felony offence is and report it to the police. RMS own comments proved he did not understand is a felony offence in the USA so he was no longer suitable for management. Evidence that someone in a management position does not understand what is a felony can give grounds to a police investigate to go through an organisation/company with a fine tooth comb looking for possible aiding and betting the crime so this can be major disruption to an organisation/company operation.

            The base of the "Occupational Safety and Health Act of 1970" law in the USA goes back into the 1760-1820/1840 with the industrial revolution in Europe so we are talking law concepts about the same age as the country of the USA and older. Yes the work place health and safety stuff of the industrial revolution was not new then either just the laws were on the books not being enforced at that time either and they work up in the industrial revolution. The true start to them is back in the 1600 from the documents that can be found so this is stuff that has been around for 3 to 4 hundred years its about time your point this any of the new stuff. This really old law principles of workplaces that a lot of people like forgetting they have to obey.

            So really MeToo with RMS has nothing todo with it. RMS wrote something that proved that he was not suitable for management that should always be technically game over for anyone in a management role.

            This is also something most people don't understand is that everything in the Linux kernel code of conduct you are legally required todo anyhow by United States Labor laws. Its not just the USA either, Australia, UK, France..... List goes on for fairly much every country setup or invaded by either the UK or France.

            There is a problem lets say the Linux kernel did not have a Code of Conduct and someone decided to complain to the courts even if their claim is groundless the judge could still rule the project had a unsafe workplace and by court order demand the workplace closed that could be all the hardware switched off at the wall and all the github mirror pages run by foundation staff locked as well.

            The advantage of having the Code of Conduct shows the group has a policy to attempt to deal with the problem so pass the duty of care test of workplace heath and safety so that prevents the project being called a unsafe workplace instead could be orders for refinement.

            There are all kinds of different workplace heath and safety court precedence covering all that.

            For something to be a workplace people don't have to be paid and we have not been considering open source projects or places like gnu/fsf/ as workplaces.

            Its about time we pull our head out sand and accept what are legally workplaces. Workplaces have law backed professional standards you have to obey like it or not. If you don't like those professional standards you have to change the law normally by being an activist not in a management position.

            Code of Conduct and the RMS mess is that everyone is not understanding the basic legal requirements of a workplace. Requirements everyone really should learn well in school because they are very important history. Yes the means you got to go to school for a education instead of working in a factory also comes out of these sections of laws so any modification to them has to be done very carefully.


            • #26
              I think the GPL license should be updated to only allow developers who have officially said something outrageous (regardless of if true or not) to contribute to a project.
              That way it will empower us all to stop this witch hunt and get back to work.

              I am quite happy to officially go on record along with everyone else to slate a nation, an age group, a gender, a culture if it keeps freedom alive and keeps my peers (and super peers like RMS) safe. And the best thing is, it doesn't even need to be true; just a declaration that peoples views are not something to weaponize as a means of simply controlling and subduing them.
              Last edited by kpedersen; 07 October 2019, 09:13 AM.


              • #27
                Originally posted by Nemerian View Post
                Nah, that attitude is like, from the Middle Ages, and it's an opressive, mysoginistic, racist, ploy from the priviledged to sweep their crimes against the opressed, and im literally shaking.
                Don't tell me to calm down when you're stepping on my toes, and other stuff.
                The problem is when there is no actual evidence and it becomes a "he said, she said" situation where the accused is punished unjustly by society at large and they're "guilty until proven innocent". That's also Middle Ages attitude and what led to the Age of Enlightenment and the concept of "innocent until proven guilty". The same thing that allows some to sweep their crimes under the rug is also supposed to be the same thing that protects people like RMS and Beer Guy. "Statute of limitations" and "burden of proof" are two of the highest costs of freedom and equality because they work both ways in this regard. That's how "innocent until proven guilty" works.

                When there's actual evidence, OTOH, that's a completely different scenario and the accused should be judged accordingly. When there is no evidence, who is actually guilty of something and who isn't starts to become muddled and punishments are dealt to all by the court of public opinion because it's all based on feelings and not facts.

                Of course I should feel bad for a rape victim. We all should. That's how empathy works. You see someone wronged and both feel bad and want to help them. 10 or 20 years later when all one has is the story and just the story of what happened, they have no credibility. I'm sorry, but that's how it is and how it needs to say. No evidence, no crime. Next thing you know we'll have people accusing one another of drug dealing to kids like "He sold me crack when I was 13" to get revenge on someone or used as a new form of SWATing to just mess with someone.

                What I'm learning during all of this is that we need a statue of limitations on how long it's acceptable to quote people on the internet for and how we need to set a limit on far back should we be allowed to go to dig up dirt on another. Basically legislating that people can change over time and that they shouldn't be allowed to be judged on past comments provided it isn't part of a larger overall pattern being established in an actual court of law; like a prosecutor bringing up 25 years of "I hate black people" posts during a white on black crime to prove that it's a hate crime compared to a company using a person saying "I hate black people" in their teens before they had a chance to learn how limited their worldview was because they hadn't actually been out in the world and recanting their previous racist statements. If RMS had Internet Post Statue of Limitations, he'd be in the free and clear right now and all his accusers would be guilty of libel or slander depending on their medium of choice.

                Guilty until proven innocent is some scary shit. If you get raped, robbed, assaulted, molested, wronged, or served a Big Mac when you ordered a Double Quarter Pounder, say something then and not in time-frames measured in multiple years later because y'all are risking turning us into a totalitarian, guilty until proven innocent, society and you need to calm down, you're being too loud because it's like uh-oh, uh-oh, uh-oh....we're all in jail trying...thanks.


                • #28
                  Originally posted by kpedersen View Post
                  I think the GPL license should be updated to only allow developers who have officially said something outrageous (regardless of if true or not) to contribute to a project.
                  That way it will empower us all to stop this witch hunt and get back to work.

                  I am quite happy to officially go on record along with everyone else to slate a nation, an age group, a gender, a culture if it keeps freedom alive and keeps my peers (and super peers like RMS) safe. And the best thing is, it doesn't even need to be true; just a declaration that peoples views are not something to weaponize as a means of simply controlling and subduing them.
                  I hate people who hate cats and dogs and believe in genocide for people with allergies so they quit bitching about my fluffy cat and dog.


                  • #29
                    In the future you can chose limited free speech and unemployment or no free speech and a job. About the time for everyone to become anonymous and hide their identity as good as they can. And this happen in so called "free world" roflmao.


                    • #30
                      Originally posted by skeevy420 View Post
                      outrageous statement
                      That was brave. My turn.

                      I don't understand pedophiles. Kids are absolutely gross and I don't want them in the same building as me, let alone sexualize them.
                      Absolutely the best way to end pedophilia is to kill all children.

                      Remember, it doesn't need to be true... or was it? No-one will ever know, my views are mine mwahaha!

                      I also agree with skeevy420 (or do I? mwahaha!)
                      Last edited by kpedersen; 07 October 2019, 03:11 PM.