Originally posted by bison
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Debian May Need To Re-Evaluate Its Interest In "Init System Diversity"
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Idiots at work: read the word "diversity" and start supporting the idea because "diversity" means something good.
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So, replacing init was tough and complicated.
I wonder, how tough and complicated it will be, when systemd eventually needs to be replaced?
I hope not i-m-p-o-s-s-i-b-l-e, because that's an alternate spelling for r-o-a-d-b-l-o-c-k.
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Originally posted by cf100clunk View PostThe answer to all this Debian init system conflict has been in plain sight for quite awhile: Devuan! https://devuan.org
If Debian without systemd is desired, use the equivalent Devuan version and be glad you did. Simple.
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Given that the major distributions are coalescing around systemd, it'll be interesting to see how they do going forward. My take is that a distribution is a system comprised of many parts, arguably the most important of which is the set of maintainers (paid or otherwise) who -- for the most part -- are basically people who agree with the distribution's goals to the point where they are willing to spend their time scratching their own (and sometimes other people's) itch to the benefit of everyone.
Economic motives aside, as long as a distribution makes its maintainers happy, it'll survive -- the users who don't actively contribute are essentially nice-to-haves in that frame of observation.
But once upstreams start assuming that their products targeted at Linux (be they services, applications or even desktop environments) have systemd functionality, the cat's arguably out of the bag. Why should maintainers (upstream or from systemd distributions) care about non-systemd use-cases if the majority of major distributions (and thus users) won't ever actually *use* the product on a non-systemd system?
There's a network effect at play here and the people who insist on having a non-systemd alternative (for whatever reason) are going to be left holding the short end of the stick for reasons of practicality and economics. And the rest of us get to listen to them complain loudly and persistently about a change they didn't initiate.
If UNIX has now become GNU/Linux plus some rounding errors, I think it's fair to say that Linux is showing signs of becoming GNU/Linux/systemd plus some rounding errors.
If a certain subset of people don't like that, they are free to attempt to build a better implementation of systemd and its API, aren't they? Isn't that what happened with e.g. elogind? At this point, it seems that the only compelling alternative to systemd is a product that not only re-implements systemd's functionality and API, but does it *better* ?Last edited by ermo; 19 September 2019, 01:05 PM.
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Originally posted by starshipeleven View PostI'm not countering arguments. I'm politely reminding that none cares outside of some vocal minority, for better or worse.
Not seeing this documentation posted here.
I don't give a shit about your own beliefs. My direct experience counters them on almost every point.
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Originally posted by danmcgrewStill a room-temperature-IQ, mouth-breathing shithead, I see, who can not contribute anything meaningful to a conversation.
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Originally posted by L_A_G View PostYou do realize that rather than countering arguments you're just deflecting them?
It's a bit like claiming that you don't care if there's a rat infestation in the kitchen because you haven't gotten food poisoning yet or that you don't care if the staff is crazy because you haven't been stabbed yet.
Seriously thou, the shambolic nature of development and the communication issues are so well documented
All times I've seen "proof" of bad communication I usually agreed with systemd devs, even when they did the unthinkable, and blamed the downstream applications or distro for doing wrong things they shouldn't do.
I'm not going to stop you from eating at a particular restaurant, but if I know there's a rat infestation in the kitchen and the staff is rude I will point this out and you claiming that you haven't gotten food poisoning or been stabbed, at least yet, isn't going to convince me the rat infestation and stab-happy staff isn't something to be concerned over.Last edited by starshipeleven; 19 September 2019, 12:18 PM.
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