Debian May Need To Re-Evaluate Its Interest In "Init System Diversity"

[starshipeleven]

Use BSD, it's basically Linux that is easier to customize and has a lot of cool features Linux does not.

Bullshit

[starshipeleven]

Seems like the functionally monolithic internal mess of constantly changing APIs is doing exactly what you'd expect to projects that try to pull in some parts of SystemD while re-implementing others in a less backwards way. The fact that the morons behind it are awful at communication obviously doesn't help.

FYI: Debian's issue as stated in the article is that many maintainers can't be arsed to ship a init.d script for their package, making their software systemd-only.

If init.d scripts were so cooler you would have the opposite, as systemd can run init scripts fine.

[starshipeleven]

If they agreed a public API to init systems, we wouldn't be here discussing it..

Systemd API is public and documented. If other init systems want to implement it they can.

[starshipeleven]

" There are 1033 non-overridden instances of lintian detecting a service unit without an init.d script."

hahahahahahah that's all Pottering's fault, he is deleting the init.d scripts.

[skeevy420]

Me and this thread:

[k1e0x]

Bullshit

Truth is hard.

source and binary packages, ZFS on root native, in the installer and highly integrated into the system, Boot environments, PF, Jails, you can switch the SSL version to libressl or change build options like Gentoo but you can do it for a few packages only so you're not rebuilding the whole dammed thing every update. clone the root to do something weird.. oh that bad, reboot and make it go away. It's boot loader is simple too, unlike grub. It's firewall is in a clean enough language you can write it with Vi in a few minutes but can also do cool things like dynamic tables.. so.. integrated adblocking by adding a <noads> table to PF.

You know what I did recently is I put my browser in a FreeBSD jail then null mounted all my directories except sensitive ones back into the jail.. So I end up with a browser that can't go after my config files or ssh keys.

It's fun finding new cool ways to put some of it's components together.

You can do a lot of that stuff on various Linux distros.. but I haven't found one that can do all of it and do it easily without a lot of hacking.

[You-]

A major problem with systemd alternatives is that they have not moved with the times. They should have developed a shim to read systemd style service files. That way most startup scripts would no longer be necessary and the syntax for services could become standardised.

No one has done this.

[starshipeleven]

Truth is hard.

that's why you post bullshit

source and binary packages,

Every distro has that

ZFS on root native, in the installer and highly integrated into the system, Boot environments,

OpenSUSE does that with btrfs. Yes also "boot environments".

PF,

unknown

Jails,

Chroot

you can switch the SSL version to libressl

Can do that on OpenSUSE, probably others too. OpenWrt has like 4 different SSL libraries you can choose.

or change build options like Gentoo but you can do it for a few packages only so you're not rebuilding the whole dammed thing every update

Can do that on any distro using apt and rpm packages.
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/...-specific-flag
https://www.thegeekstuff.com/2015/02...ackage-example

clone the root to do something weird.. oh that bad, reboot and make it go away.

OpenSUSE can do that if using btrfs for root, don't know about others.

It's boot loader is simple too, unlike grub.

While I agree that GRUB is bullshit, it's not a major problem.

It's firewall is in a clean enough language you can write it with Vi in a few minutes

ever used nftables on Linux? Not hard. (I mean not hard to use it, of course firewalling stuff can be complex but that's not a tool issue)

but can also do cool things like dynamic tables.. so.. integrated adblocking by adding a <noads> table to PF.

this is better than just dumping a blacklist in the host file? Because that's not really hard and works fine.

You know what I did recently is I put my browser in a FreeBSD jail

Chroot

I haven't found one that can do all of it and do it easily without a lot of hacking.

I would say OpenSUSE can do all you asked without particular issues.
Apart from boot environments, every other distro can do the same, using more or less the same tools.

[patrakov]

If Debian goes the route of being systemd only, then what is their distinguishing feature, compelling reason for users to choose it instead of some other Linux distro that also uses systemd, or, perish the thought, also uses Debian's own source?

Lack of any desire to have a not-quite-ready distinguishing feature.

Long-term support release? Redhat and Ubuntu already do that.

Ubuntu only provides long-term support for packages in its quite limited "main" repository, not in "universe". And the default install includes many packages from "universe"! So Ubuntu in my opinion only pretends to provide long term support for their distribution.

[k1e0x]

that's why you post bullshit
Every distro has that
OpenSUSE does that with btrfs. Yes also "boot environments".
unknown
Chroot
Can do that on OpenSUSE, probably others too. OpenWrt has like 4 different SSL libraries you can choose.

Can do that on any distro using apt and rpm packages.
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/...-specific-flag
https://www.thegeekstuff.com/2015/02...ackage-example

OpenSUSE can do that if using btrfs for root, don't know about others.

While I agree that GRUB is bullshit, it's not a major problem.

ever used nftables on Linux? Not hard. (I mean not hard to use it, of course firewalling stuff can be complex but that's not a tool issue)

this is better than just dumping a blacklist in the host file? Because that's not really hard and works fine.

Chroot

I would say OpenSUSE can do all you asked without particular issues.
Apart from boot environments, every other distro can do the same, using more or less the same tools.

Yes, I see you have a lot of poor implementations of good stuff in FreeBSD... and all of that stuff is harder on Linux.. chroot... lol You know a jail isn't chroot right? ...well.. who knows.. maybe Linux will catch up some day.. I should thank systemd tho, I probably wouldn't have switched to BSD without it.