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Debian May Need To Re-Evaluate Its Interest In "Init System Diversity"

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  • #51
    Originally posted by sandy8925 View Post
    I really don't get all of the hate for systemd, it's pretty awesome.
    If you don't understand, its because you are not deep into this subjects, and the impact all of this represents, to people working with it, from top to bottom..
    Also, its not hate( since hate is something that we should avoid in life, more even when we are in a open source community, which means diversity.. ), the problem is that systemd, kills that diversity.. yeah..

    The lack of standardisation, also doesn't help..
    Each time you create a subsystem, a standard should be approved, this are good practices in opensource..

    Debian should ask for it ,
    In the past it holded a status of independence and diversity..

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    • #52
      Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
      I vote for SystemD only Debian. we really should not fragment the linux eco system we should unite instead.

      and negative people say that linux has so many distros that "unite" is not possible but in fact

      if redhat and ubuntu and debian is SystemD only then it is like 99% of the market share.

      no one cares what 1% of the freak people do in the moment they watch porn and code....
      No reason to say systemd only. Just say it is not required to provide init.d scripts. Leave maintaining the alternatives to those that care and don't bother anyone else.

      Of course the results will be mostly the same 😉

      As long as they keep traditional logfiles around at least, because I have still not warmed up to journalctl.
      Last edited by carewolf; 09-19-2019, 08:01 AM.

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      • #53
        Originally posted by k1e0x View Post
        Use BSD, it's basically Linux that is easier to customize and has a lot of cool features Linux does not.
        Bullshit

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        • #54
          Originally posted by L_A_G View Post
          Seems like the functionally monolithic internal mess of constantly changing APIs is doing exactly what you'd expect to projects that try to pull in some parts of SystemD while re-implementing others in a less backwards way. The fact that the morons behind it are awful at communication obviously doesn't help.
          FYI: Debian's issue as stated in the article is that many maintainers can't be arsed to ship a init.d script for their package, making their software systemd-only.

          If init.d scripts were so cooler you would have the opposite, as systemd can run init scripts fine.

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          • #55
            Originally posted by tuxd3v View Post
            If they agreed a public API to init systems, we wouldn't be here discussing it..
            Systemd API is public and documented. If other init systems want to implement it they can.

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            • #56
              " There are 1033 non-overridden instances of lintian detecting a service unit without an init.d script."

              hahahahahahah that's all Pottering's fault, he is deleting the init.d scripts.

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              • #57
                Me and this thread:

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                • #58
                  Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
                  Bullshit
                  Truth is hard.

                  source and binary packages, ZFS on root native, in the installer and highly integrated into the system, Boot environments, PF, Jails, you can switch the SSL version to libressl or change build options like Gentoo but you can do it for a few packages only so you're not rebuilding the whole dammed thing every update. clone the root to do something weird.. oh that bad, reboot and make it go away. It's boot loader is simple too, unlike grub. It's firewall is in a clean enough language you can write it with Vi in a few minutes but can also do cool things like dynamic tables.. so.. integrated adblocking by adding a <noads> table to PF.

                  You know what I did recently is I put my browser in a FreeBSD jail then null mounted all my directories except sensitive ones back into the jail.. So I end up with a browser that can't go after my config files or ssh keys.

                  It's fun finding new cool ways to put some of it's components together.

                  You can do a lot of that stuff on various Linux distros.. but I haven't found one that can do all of it and do it easily without a lot of hacking.
                  Last edited by k1e0x; 09-19-2019, 08:52 AM.

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                  • #59
                    A major problem with systemd alternatives is that they have not moved with the times. They should have developed a shim to read systemd style service files. That way most startup scripts would no longer be necessary and the syntax for services could become standardised.

                    No one has done this.

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                    • #60
                      Originally posted by k1e0x View Post
                      Truth is hard.
                      that's why you post bullshit
                      source and binary packages,
                      Every distro has that
                      ZFS on root native, in the installer and highly integrated into the system, Boot environments,
                      OpenSUSE does that with btrfs. Yes also "boot environments".
                      PF,
                      unknown
                      Jails,
                      Chroot
                      you can switch the SSL version to libressl
                      Can do that on OpenSUSE, probably others too. OpenWrt has like 4 different SSL libraries you can choose.

                      or change build options like Gentoo but you can do it for a few packages only so you're not rebuilding the whole dammed thing every update
                      Can do that on any distro using apt and rpm packages.
                      https://stackoverflow.com/questions/...-specific-flag
                      https://www.thegeekstuff.com/2015/02...ackage-example

                      clone the root to do something weird.. oh that bad, reboot and make it go away.
                      OpenSUSE can do that if using btrfs for root, don't know about others.

                      It's boot loader is simple too, unlike grub.
                      While I agree that GRUB is bullshit, it's not a major problem.

                      It's firewall is in a clean enough language you can write it with Vi in a few minutes
                      ever used nftables on Linux? Not hard. (I mean not hard to use it, of course firewalling stuff can be complex but that's not a tool issue)

                      but can also do cool things like dynamic tables.. so.. integrated adblocking by adding a <noads> table to PF.
                      this is better than just dumping a blacklist in the host file? Because that's not really hard and works fine.

                      You know what I did recently is I put my browser in a FreeBSD jail
                      Chroot

                      I haven't found one that can do all of it and do it easily without a lot of hacking.
                      I would say OpenSUSE can do all you asked without particular issues.
                      Apart from boot environments, every other distro can do the same, using more or less the same tools.

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