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Debian May Need To Re-Evaluate Its Interest In "Init System Diversity"

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  • #11
    Originally posted by cf100clunk View Post
    The answer to all this Debian init system conflict has been in plain sight for quite awhile: Devuan! https://devuan.org
    If Debian without systemd is desired, use the equivalent Devuan version and be glad you did. Simple.
    I'm pretty sure that MX Linux is the far more popular of the non-systemd Debian derivatives. So much so that it's probably the fastest growing distro in the world right now in terms of expansion of the installed base. In fact, I'll bet MX users are causing a great deal of the consternation among the elongind opponents within the Debian project. MX is using Debian's repositories, and is becoming a driving force for the future of Debian. Debian maintainers don't really have the option of just killing support for elogind, even though some of them would clearly like to think they could ignore it and it would go away.

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    • #12
      I vote for SystemD only Debian. we really should not fragment the linux eco system we should unite instead.

      and negative people say that linux has so many distros that "unite" is not possible but in fact

      if redhat and ubuntu and debian is SystemD only then it is like 99% of the market share.

      no one cares what 1% of the freak people do in the moment they watch porn and code....
      Phantom circuit Sequence Reducer Dyslexia

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      • #13
        Originally posted by andrnils View Post
        Is the author of systemd any better than rms? Probably not, and neither is his view of "Linux or nothing". Systemd is completely the wrong way to go about compatibility, but what is required for the lackeys to realize that?
        I think compatibilty is really no issue to the systemd maintainers, they want to go forward. From my standpoint, liking progress and innovation, I think thats a quite valid and reasonable idea and the way to go. Other OS might implement interfaces like the ones from the systemd services, and they're good to go. There are already other partial implementations for the same software interfaces, those would just need to get more attention. They just won't be able to keep up, if they go on neglecting to innovate.

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        • #14
          Originally posted by Niarbeht View Post
          Nice. And true.

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          • #15
            Originally posted by andrnils View Post
            Is the author of systemd any better than rms? Probably not, and neither is his view of "Linux or nothing". Systemd is completely the wrong way to go about compatibility, but what is required for the lackeys to realize that?
            Compatibility (between Unix systems, I understand) is very overrated. What really matters is compatibility between Linux systems, which is precisely what Systemd provides

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            • #16
              If Debian goes the route of being systemd only, then what is their distinguishing feature, compelling reason for users to choose it instead of some other Linux distro that also uses systemd, or, perish the thought, also uses Debian's own source?

              Long-term support release? Redhat and Ubuntu already do that.

              Fancy desktops? Boxes full of distros already do that.

              Some sort of super-duper, solves every issue distribution installer and updater? Seriously, that's all you got? There's APT, pacman, and many others. Pick one.

              I am pretty certain I have mentioned this in the past, maybe even years ago, but lack of feature diversity between various Linux distributions simply calls up the question to the marketplace: "Why do they bother to exist when they seem so much alike?"

              Those fancy desktop interfaces that most distributions tout, and some are little more than "skins", isn't enough to make them a lasting product in the marketplace...even if the marketplace is "free".

              A critical factor in the marketplace success of any product is focusing on "distinguishing features" and "compelling reasons to use the product" rather than just being another "me too!" product.

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              • #17
                Originally posted by q2dg View Post

                Compatibility (between Unix systems, I understand) is very overrated. What really matters is compatibility between Linux systems, which is precisely what Systemd provides
                Linux is not an OS. So "compatibility between Linux systems" is just a mythical objective that will never be obtained. Just say what you really want - "I want RedHat, Fedora, Ubuntu, Debian, SUSE,opensuse , and Arch to all work the same". Once you honestly name the real objective, you should realize you are already there. Since you don't really care about Gentoo or Puppy or antiX or Void or Hyperbola or a thousand other projects, there's no reason to lump them all together under this mythical "Linux OS" umbrella.

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                • #18
                  I think this says a lot about the current state of Linux without systemd:

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                  • #19
                    Originally posted by NotMine999 View Post
                    If Debian goes the route of being systemd only, then what is their distinguishing feature, compelling reason for users to choose it instead of some other Linux distro that also uses systemd, or, perish the thought, also uses Debian's own source?
                    Well, what was Debian's selling point before systemd was born and adopted? I'm positive the reasons to use Debian didn't change a lot since then.

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                    • #20
                      Originally posted by andrnils View Post
                      Is the author of systemd any better than rms? Probably not, and neither is his view of "Linux or nothing". Systemd is completely the wrong way to go about compatibility, but what is required for the lackeys to realize that?
                      Who wrote systemd and their opinions doesn't matter. What matters is that distro maintainers want it, but what is required for the lackeys to realize that?

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