Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

USB 4.0 "USB4" Specification Published

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • starshipeleven
    replied
    Originally posted by TheLexMachine View Post
    USB 4.0 also features USB 2.0 data bus, so backwards compatibility is there, through USB 2.0's compatibility with 1.X. The real issue is driver support, as it won't likely be available in Windows 10 for such ancient devices. None of the 1.X devices you mention are really in use anymore, though you can easily find them in junk piles at thrift stores, so it's not going to be a problem for any business, since they would have long since replaced such devices with USB 2.0 ones.
    A lot of modern USB keyboards and mice and controllers are actually USB 1.1, also other input devices using the HID generic drivers (i.e. disguising as controllers or keyboard/mouse) commonly use USB 1.1 as they don't need high bandiwth

    Breaking USB 1.1 support is a BIG deal for input devices.

    Leave a comment:


  • starshipeleven
    replied
    Originally posted by the_scx View Post
    You know that it's not just about speed (Low Speed = 1.5 Mb/s, High Speed = 480 Mb/s, SuperSpeed = 5 Gb/s, SuperSpeed+ = 10 Gb/s | 20 Gb/s | 40 Gb/s) and charging (0.5 W = 5 V * 0.1 A, 0.75 W = 5 V * 0.15 A, 2.5 W = 5 V * 0.5 A, 4.5 W = 5 V * 0.9 A, 7.5 W = 5 V * 1.5 A, 9 W = 5 V * 1.8 A, 10 W = 5 V * 2 A, 15 W = 5 V * 3 A, 18 W = 12 V * 1.5 A, 25 W = 5 V * 5 A, 27 W = 9 V * 3 A, 36 W = 12 V * 3 A, 45 W = 15 V * 3 A, 60 W = 12 V * 5 A | 20 V * 3 A, 100 W = 20 V * 5 A), but also about alternate modes (USB = Universal Serial Bus Mode, DP = DisplayPort Alternate Mode, MHL = Mobile High-Definition Link Alternate Mode, TB = Thunderbolt Alternate Mode, HDMI = HDMI Alternate Mode, VL = VirtualLink Alternate Mode), right?
    You will need a lot of colors to properly mark it. Do you think that customers would be happy with rainbow cables?
    You need to mark only for speed and then add colors for the "highest speed available + power delivery level 1", "highest speed available + power delivery level 2" and so on.

    All alternate modes can be folded into the "speed" category.

    Leave a comment:


  • anth
    replied
    Originally posted by tuxd3v View Post
    USB 3.2 ... 20Gb/s
    USB 4.0 .. 40 Gb/s( doubles the bandwidth.. )
    I've always thought the claims of extra bandwidth from TB compared with USB were a bit misleading. They are correct but with a caveat.

    PCIe over Thunderbolt 3 has the same maximum 20Gb/s bandwidth per direction as the USB 3.x protocol. The difference is USB (3.2 Gen 2x2) uses the two SuperSpeed+ lanes in one direction and the other two lanes in the other direction, but only does one direction at a time rather than both at once. TB also uses two lanes in each direction but can do both at once, though it is limited to a length of 0.5m or an active cable.

    DisplayPort 1.2 to 1.4 can use the HBR3 transmission mode from that standard as a USB-C alternate mode, with 1, 2, or all 4 SuperSpeed+ lanes, for a maximum bandwidth in one direction of 32.4Gb/s.

    I've not got to grips with USB 4 yet.

    Leave a comment:


  • elatllat
    replied
    Originally posted by torsionbar28 View Post
    ... what does that really gain them...
    $, a new $111 4w power sipping 14 nm box replacing 10 100w servers is going to save them some $ directly and in AC.


    When do we get pure usb-c hubs?

    Leave a comment:


  • torsionbar28
    replied
    Originally posted by TheLexMachine View Post
    None of the 1.X devices you mention are really in use anymore, though you can easily find them in junk piles at thrift stores, so it's not going to be a problem for any business, since they would have long since replaced such devices with USB 2.0 ones.
    You underestimate the business world. I have customers with Compaq DL380 G2 servers, circa 2004, still in production service. We're talking Pentium 3 with 4 GB RAM and 146 GB SCSI drives. Yes they're also running EOL operating systems. No plans to upgrade, as they're not internet connected, and they have a big pile of spare parts to keep them alive. The manufacturing industry in particular is notorious for running ancient PC's to operate equally ancient manufacturing equipment. I worked on 486 DX2-66's for the tobacco processing industry until just a few years ago. I can understand their point - they have a 30 year old industrial machine that would cost $2M to replace with a new one. The software that runs the machine only runs on MS-DOS. Sure they could maybe do something fancy with virtualization, or DOSbox emulation, but what does that really gain them, other than added complexity, and factory downtime to upgrade/maintain a newer PC? Heck, most bank ATM machines are still running Windows XP. Anyways, I'm rambling now- the point is, I think you'd be quite surprised at the number of USB 1.x devices that are still in use today.
    Last edited by torsionbar28; 09-03-2019, 10:29 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • the_scx
    replied
    Originally posted by zanny View Post
    I wonder why USB never made a color code specification for cables / ports. IE, yellow ring for power only, blue for serial only, green for display, red for parallel / full spec. For the power spec orange could be "fast" charging capable up to the rated limit whereas yellow would only be up to the usual 5v.
    ​​​​​​​Mac users would love it!
    USB4 LGBTQIA
    USB4 LGBTQIA

    You know that it's not just about speed (Low Speed = 1.5 Mb/s, High Speed = 480 Mb/s, SuperSpeed = 5 Gb/s, SuperSpeed+ = 10 Gb/s | 20 Gb/s | 40 Gb/s) and charging (0.5 W = 5 V * 0.1 A, 0.75 W = 5 V * 0.15 A, 2.5 W = 5 V * 0.5 A, 4.5 W = 5 V * 0.9 A, 7.5 W = 5 V * 1.5 A, 9 W = 5 V * 1.8 A, 10 W = 5 V * 2 A, 15 W = 5 V * 3 A, 18 W = 12 V * 1.5 A, 25 W = 5 V * 5 A, 27 W = 9 V * 3 A, 36 W = 12 V * 3 A, 45 W = 15 V * 3 A, 60 W = 12 V * 5 A | 20 V * 3 A, 100 W = 20 V * 5 A), but also about alternate modes (USB = Universal Serial Bus Mode, DP = DisplayPort Alternate Mode, MHL = Mobile High-Definition Link Alternate Mode, TB = Thunderbolt Alternate Mode, HDMI = HDMI Alternate Mode, VL = VirtualLink Alternate Mode), right?
    You will need a lot of colors to properly mark it. Do you think that customers would be happy with rainbow cables?

    Leave a comment:


  • LaeMing
    replied
    I use USB2-12Mb/s (fallback to 1.5Mb/s) as my desktop peripheral bus.

    I use faster versions of USB for... well I don't really have a use for it - everything high speed in my life is either inside the box or at the other end of a CAT-6 cable!

    Leave a comment:


  • TheLexMachine
    replied
    Originally posted by torsionbar28 View Post
    So it is NOT backwards compatible with USB 1.0/1.1? That's a pretty glaring omission. There are tons of older HID devices, printers, label printers, and other devices that don't need much bandwidth and typically have a long service life. People gonna be pissed when they find this out the hard way.
    USB 4.0 also features USB 2.0 data bus, so backwards compatibility is there, through USB 2.0's compatibility with 1.X. The real issue is driver support, as it won't likely be available in Windows 10 for such ancient devices. None of the 1.X devices you mention are really in use anymore, though you can easily find them in junk piles at thrift stores, so it's not going to be a problem for any business, since they would have long since replaced such devices with USB 2.0 ones.

    Leave a comment:


  • tuxd3v
    replied
    Originally posted by tildearrow View Post

    Protocol on top of protocol...

    We already have the following mess:
    - Super-Slow USB (1.1 low-speed)
    - Slow USB (1.1 full-speed)
    - High-Speed USB (2.0)
    - SuperSpeed USB (3.0)
    - USB 3.1 Gen1 which is basically SuperSpeed
    - USB 3.1 Gen2 which is SuperSpeed x2
    - USB-C which does USB
    - USB-C which does DisplayPort
    ​​​​​- USB-C which does Power
    - Thunderbolt 3 that looks like USB-C and does PCIe
    - USB 3.2 Gen1x1 which is the same old boring SuperSpeed
    - USB 3.2 Gen1x2, more like Universal Parallel Bus
    - USB 3.2 Gen2x1 which is 3.1 Gen2
    - USB 3.2 Gen2x2 which is the only improvement over 3.1
    - USB that transmits power
    *Cables*
    - USB-A which is your typical USB port but the cable is A only in one side unless it's one of those weird cables
    - USB-B which is used on large hardware slaves (printers, capture cards, MIDI controllers, etc.)
    - miniUSB-A, which nobody uses
    - miniUSB-B, which is used on smaller devices
    - microUSB-A, which nobody uses
    - microUSB-B, which is used on phones and some more recent devices
    - USB-B 3.0, which is like a USB-B cable but a little taller
    - microUSB-B 3.0. When I first saw it I thought it was a proprietary connector, but no, it isn't. It looks weird.
    - Cables that work very well but are expensive
    - Cables that fail after a few days of use
    - Cables that fail every time the freezer turns on
    - Cables that claim doing 20Gbps but actually only do less

    And now what?
    - USB that looks like USB but actually does PCIe?!?!
    - USB 4.0 that does Thunderbolt 3?
    - USB 4.0 Gen2x2²x4sin(π)?
    - AsuMagic's proposal?
    And they have the guts to use a word... I believe is "Standard"..
    They created this mess with the Ideology to "fix the mess that was the market of connectors and cables.."

    But now we have a gazzilion of Standards,
    Which is the same has... no Standards at all..

    The Unique thing standard there are the first 3 letters "USB"( they are standard in all that mess.. ).

    Leave a comment:


  • tuxd3v
    replied
    Originally posted by torsionbar28 View Post
    It is not uncommon for different technologies to share existing layer 1 cabling and connectors. It makes sense. Why re-invent when an existing cable and connector meets your specs?
    Agree

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X