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Microsoft Publishes exFAT Specification, Encourages Linux Support

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  • #41
    Originally posted by JMB9 View Post
    I just remind you of "Those who do not learn history are doomed to repeat it.".
    I agree with a lot of what you said. Yes Microsoft is evil and has done lots of terrible stuff and will continue to do terrible stuff. But they did learn, they fought Linux, they've done a decent job at keeping it down on the desktop side of things, but failed horribly at stopping it on the server, phone, and Internet of thing devices. So now they are trying to use it to help them further their goals. the idiom "If you can't beat them, join them" fits here perfectly, though join should be changed to use.

    But yeah, I agree with most of what you said. I guess when I start thinking of evil companies, Google will always be number one evil to me, because i think of its evil in data mining. Google search is the largest search engine and collects all the data it can get from you when using it, Youtube biggest video site, tries to collect everything it can, Gmail same thing, Chrome browser is now the top browser and is so tied to google that its open source counterpart chromium is still fully tied to google, look at how much work is needed for ungoogled-chromium, its insane, and of course android biggest phone os and and chromeos which of course has the same problems as chrome. Google is everywhere and it is almost impossible to use the web without connecting to google in one way or another. For this site ublock origin shows 5 different google connections.

    So to me when it comes to evil from least to greatest. Apple i don't care about at all, let those special people live in their own special world with their "special hardware", running their "special software" because they are special and want to be separate from everything else. Then it goes Microsoft, hell if it wasn't for me wanting to play some Windows only games, i wouldn't even have wine installed. Then there is google, extremely hard to be google free, doable but too difficult for me. hell I use a flip phone so no android or ios for me. but i do like youtube so i don't use cookies or have an account and of course i do my best to block ads and tracking.

    I hope that makes sense. I think it does, if not well i blame it on the vodka that is kicking in pretty well now haha.


    • #42
      Originally posted by schmidtbag View Post
      I don't think it's all that surprising or uncharacteristic. MS has been un-nefarious toward Linux for at least 2 years. The only difference is back then, we were more suspicious, because we weren't used to them doing something actually beneficial for Linux with no strings attached.

      It's kinda like someone who adopts an abused dog and hands out fresh food - the dog at first is wary, thinking "what are you going to do to me if I eat this?" but after a while, the new owner earns the dog's trust and the dog doesn't question why it is being fed well. It's the same level of kindness, just a matter of perspective.

      No - I'm not saying MS is kind.
      MS is neither kind or unkind, it just became smarter than during the Gates-Ballmer era. Rather than trying to kill Linux, they use it to make (lots of) money. And unquestionably it's much better for both Linux and Microsoft to have each other as a friend than as an enemy.


      • #43
        Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
        To be fair, neither is using Linux, so the point still stands.
        What about the big studios?

        Oh, never mind, they can just hire Tuxera...
        Last edited by tildearrow; 08-29-2019, 04:03 AM.


        • #44
          This seems like another Microsoft bait and switch to taint FOSS with code they later claim is non-commercial only.

          Anyone remember Microsoft's "gift" to standardize fonts on the web? They released the Microsoft Core fonts for the Web with the license that states the users "may reproduce and distribute an unlimited number of copies." That sounds great, right?? After 6 years after the effort to get the fonts widely used on the web worked, they removed it from being available for download. They also clarified that they saw the commercial use as an "abuse." The fonts remains available for a *fee* but not under the terms Microsoft originally claimed they would "gift" the fonts under. Microsoft has never reinstated terms friendly to commercial redistribution with Linux because Microsoft is only posturing when it comes to "love" for Linux. Red Hat has provided the Liberation Fonts as a replacement so there is no need for Microsoft to ever provide the Core fonts for the Web ever again but it would have been nice if Microsoft at least performed the gesture.

          Microsoft then played games with the Microsoft Open Specification Promise which again has taint in the language which makes it clear that Microsoft can retract on commercial use if they want to. The Software Freedom Law Center pointed that the MS OSP could not be trusted by GPL developers. The issues the SFLC pointed out about the wording of MS OSP has never been resolved.

          It should be noted that exFAT still does not even appear as a MS Open Specification Promise covered document. The specification document makes no promises regarding licensing or a non-sue covenant.

          What Microsoft does have is this:

          A web page with the link to contact them for the PRICING to license the Microsoft Intellectual Property for commercial use.

          If Microsoft publishing the specifications to exFAT really was about making it available for use in the Linux kernel under the kernel's GPL terms, wouldn't it be reflected as such in the specification or the MS OSP or the exFAT IP licensing page?

          If this taint is accepted, there will be a "clarification" provided later just like Microsoft Core Font for the Web. Microsoft "loves Linux" much like a Nigerian prince loves an account fund executor. At the end of the day, the 419 plan is to get someone to pay the fees.


          • #45
            Originally posted by chilinux View Post
            They also clarified that they saw the commercial use as an "abuse."
            Really? Did people steal the fonts and sell them?


            • #46
              Originally posted by bachchain View Post
              Now if only they could go the other way and add Windows support for ext and btrfs
              they don't have manpower to write another advanced filesystem


              • #47
                Originally posted by kpedersen View Post

                Yep, integration and interoperability goes both ways. Its all well and good their stuff working in Linux but it is still fiddly as hell to use a UNIX filesystem in Windows. I am sure this one-way compatibility will be used to convince businesses to splash out on yet more Windows licenses.
                why splash licenses on something which can't read all filesystems instead of something which can read all filesystems?
                Originally posted by kpedersen View Post
                Also, they are releasing the specs but they will still retain the patent. That still makes me feel uneasy. In a couple of years once their goals shift once again, there is nothing really to stop them weaponizing this.
                they are adding code to oin, which allows peaceful use of patent


                • #48
                  Ok, if hypothetically Microsoft fired the EEE CEO, and replaced him with a CEO that is actively trying to engage with the open source community, how many years would it take for there to not be a dozen "It must be EEE somehow" posts on here every time they attempt to reach out?

                  They have reworked .Net so you can do most of it from a Linux box these days...
                  Their main product has shifted from Windows to Azure and they are actively using Linux for that....
                  They are open sourcing things....

                  What would they have to actually do?


                  • #49
                    Originally posted by johannesburgel View Post
                    1. You have to join the OIN to get access to the patents, and are forced to cross-license all your patents related to the "Linux System definition" to all others for free after you join.
                    not a bad thing
                    Originally posted by johannesburgel View Post
                    2. OIN only covers Linux-based operating systems, nothing else. Lots of devices which have to use exFAT (e.g. because they have to support SDXC cards) don't run Linux. *BSDs, ReactOS, etc. are also not covered.
                    why should i care?
                    Originally posted by johannesburgel View Post
                    3. Turns out many of the companies which get ripped off the most by Microsoft - device manufacturers like Samsung, Huawei, Xiaomi etc. - have not joined the OIN.
                    time to join then


                    • #50
                      Originally posted by tildearrow View Post
                      This, and especially ext4 (or even XFS as I work with it in my external hard drives).

                      If ext4 were to be supported under Windows, I would just have to do this:
                      - Boot into Windows
                      - Copy the file from my Linux partition within Windows
                      Wouldn't you run into permission issues? At least, afaik external disks with linux filesystems aren't all that portable if the uid/gid don't match well on a different system.