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  • Originally posted by duby229 View Post
    Not since WW2. Like it or not they established their own government.
    There are no such thing..
    China is unified by international Law by some decades now..

    The Center of Power that was in Taiwan signed a decree establishing they are 'part of China', or what you can call, China "Mainland"..
    That decree was taken, and by International Law, as a base and so Taiwan was recognised as a inalienable part of China, or what some call China "Mainland",
    With its politic's Maximum centre in Beijing..

    So Like it or not,
    Taiwan is China, with the Maximum rule of power been Beijing..
    It is even recognised by the UN as such...

    They have a local government, yes, as Macau, and HongKong( as some Islands in my Country also do.. )
    The key difference is that, they are not a country, and Beijing are the maximum rule of Power in China.

    Originally posted by duby229 View Post
    The Communists wer -NOT- in power when the Democrats established Taiwan's independence. And Hong Kong was part of the English Empire Long before the Communists were even a simple thought. What China is doing in Hong Kong is simply morally wrong.
    I don't know what you are up to...
    ..the Democrats established Taiwan's independence..
    What Democrats??? Are you crazy?
    China was indeed Liberated from Japan claws, by Soviet Union, as was Mongolia, and Korea.
    But there were no "Democrats" in China..

    To put it simply, China top Society wanted to Rule..
    and its impossible to have several ruling at same time, so divisions existed and were severe..
    In this process the top Society Members that were "depressed" by the fact that they were not rulling,
    Isolated themselves in Taiwan, and declared themselves the Center of Power of China..

    A thing of kids, when they are not in good mood..
    That division was never accepted of-course, and as such Taiwan never acquired a International Status of independence..
    Later in the process Taiwan signed a decree saying that they are indeed part of China "Mainland"( which is silly because they were already part of China "Mainland" before, by International Law.. ).

    Later the kids went on bad mood again, and Flee from Beijing, and Isolated again in Taiwan saying that they are the Center of China... ridicule..
    Ofcourse they have never received attention by International Law,
    By International Law, Beijing is the Center of Power in China( all parts of China.. ).

    HongKong is a different story,
    And it has to do with trade wars between United Kingdom, and China( what some call China "Mainland" ).
    HongKong, is also recognised correctly, as part of China, by International Law..

    I don't understand when you said:
    What China is doing in Hong Kong is simply morally wrong.
    HongKong is also part of China...
    When you say that is 'wrong what China is doing to HongKong',
    Is like saying 'is wrong what China is doing to China'

    China is doing nothing to the HongKong people... the problem are always the Elites..
    The ones that enslave the people to enrich without working themselves..
    They are like a disease, a cancer..

    This are the ones doing some damage in HongKong,
    At the point that Beijing was thinking in Intervene Militarily in that part of China,
    if the thing escalate beyond certain point..

    What can I say about it.. I continue to say...China is right, they are all China..
    They have rules, you brake them, you pay for the damages you create..
    Its like that, in any other place on Planet Hearth( at least.. ).

    Comment


    • tuxd3v, you are of course entitled to you're opinion on this matter, so I won't say that you're wrong. I really can't say how this would turn out, but I can say for certain their would be zero chance of the US allowing a war with China to turn into a ground war. China could launch as many missiles as they want but not a single one of them can outrun A LASER BEAM.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by duby229 View Post
        tuxd3v, you are of course entitled to you're opinion on this matter, so I won't say that you're wrong. I really can't say how this would turn out, but I can say for certain their would be zero chance of the US allowing a war with China to turn into a ground war. China could launch as many missiles as they want but not a single one of them can outrun A LASER BEAM.
        I understand that, and US would try to avoid a Land War for obvious Reasons..
        But you also need to acknowledge that at some point in time, a land war, is inevitable, you can't capitulate a country Government only with a sea war..For that you need to jump on land at some point in time..


        Remember in WWII, when Germany Capitulated, why do you think they capitulated?
        They capitulated because the Soviet Union Marched on Berlin, to the Bundestag..
        They had at that time 2 options:
        1. Don't capitulate, and be executed, one by one.
        2. Negotiate a surrender, and maybe save their lives.
        Of Course they choose'd the 2) Option..

        But this was only possible because Soviet Union attacked Berlin with 4.5 Million Solders, of-course by land..
        So to capitulate a country rule of power you need always to engage in a Land War( and its a bloody one.. ).

        In the part that you are talking about the fact that China could use the amount of missiles they want..
        Well, they will do that, the thing is, US doing a Sea War, is constrained to a limit of missiles available to wage war, over seas..
        China on the Other hand, has no limit to the amount of missiles it can use, because it will do a Land War, they can put zillions of missiles available, and even launch all of them at same time..

        Its impossible to win a War, when you are at Sea, when you are attacking a superpower..
        Because the amount of missiles that that superpower has is hundreds if not thousands of times bigger than yours, which is constrained by space in the Ships..

        US knows that, China also knows that, Russia also knows that...its a fact, numbers matters a lot, when they are so disproportionate..

        Comment


        • Originally posted by tuxd3v View Post

          I understand that, and US would try to avoid a Land War for obvious Reasons..
          But you also need to acknowledge that at some point in time, a land war, is inevitable, you can't capitulate a country Government only with a sea war..For that you need to jump on land at some point in time..


          Remember in WWII, when Germany Capitulated, why do you think they capitulated?
          They capitulated because the Soviet Union Marched on Berlin, to the Bundestag..
          They had at that time 2 options:
          1. Don't capitulate, and be executed, one by one.
          2. Negotiate a surrender, and maybe save their lives.
          Of Course they choose'd the 2) Option..

          But this was only possible because Soviet Union attacked Berlin with 4.5 Million Solders, of-course by land..
          So to capitulate a country rule of power you need always to engage in a Land War( and its a bloody one.. ).

          In the part that you are talking about the fact that China could use the amount of missiles they want..
          Well, they will do that, the thing is, US doing a Sea War, is constrained to a limit of missiles available to wage war, over seas..
          China on the Other hand, has no limit to the amount of missiles it can use, because it will do a Land War, they can put zillions of missiles available, and even launch all of them at same time..

          Its impossible to win a War, when you are at Sea, when you are attacking a superpower..
          Because the amount of missiles that that superpower has is hundreds if not thousands of times bigger than yours, which is constrained by space in the Ships..

          US knows that, China also knows that, Russia also knows that...its a fact, numbers matters a lot, when they are so disproportionate..
          The US would have no interest in invading China, They would probably try to hold Hong Kong at minimum, but not likely anything more.

          The difference between This moment and WW2 is that the Nazi's had V2 rockets which couldn't hit a target even if they tried. they were weapons of terror and nothing more. China today has very accurate guided missiles and ballistic rockets and are sophisticated weapons systems, the V2 was not. Those same weapons would work flawlessly against -any- other nation besides the US, but they are completely worthless against the US. Not one of them would have a single chance in any scenario to hit a US target unless it was total surprise, and even then only on the very first attempt and no other afterwards.

          But in the mean time the US would wage a terrible war of attrition and economic collapse on China that would devastate their ability to build or deploy anything at all. The way to defeat China would be a horrible war of shock and awe. The US would have an Enormous Naval presence all over China's seas and China would have no ability whatsoever to get anywhere near the US mainland. We would wipe out all of their military assets and they would have no ability at all to touch ours. They could launch as many missiles as they want, the US literally has hundreds of cruisers equipped with energy weapons designed for the specific purpose of anti-air support. And Energy weapons only take up as much space as they take up, many of these cruisers are very small. They could launch tens of thousands of missiles and deplete their reserves in an instant and wouldn't matter whatsoever.

          (And I haven't yet mentioned the literally hundreds of nuclear subs the US has. I very seriously doubt it would turn into a nuclear war, but if it did, China would have zero chance of hitting any US target and meanwhile the US would turn China into a nuclear wasteland)
          Last edited by duby229; 09-04-2019, 12:29 PM.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by duby229 View Post

            The US would have no interest in invading China, They would probably try to hold Hong Kong at minimum, but not likely anything more.

            The difference between This moment and WW2 is that the Nazi's had V2 rockets which couldn't hit a target even if they tried. they were weapons of terror and nothing more. China today has very accurate guided missiles and ballistic rockets and are sophisticated weapons systems, the V2 was not. Those same weapons would work flawlessly against -any- other nation besides the US, but they are completely worthless against the US. Not one of them would have a single chance in any scenario to hit a US target unless it was total surprise, and even then only on the very first attempt and no other afterwards.

            But in the mean time the US would wage a terrible war of attrition and economic collapse on China that would devastate their ability to build or deploy anything at all. The way to defeat China would be a horrible war of shock and awe. The US would have an Enormous Naval presence a would have zero chance of hitting any US target and meanwhile the US would turn China into a nuclear wasteland)all over China's seas and China would have no ability whatsoever to get anywhere near the US mainland. We would wipe out all of their military assets and they would have no ability at all to touch ours. They could launch as many missiles as they want, the US literally has hundreds of cruisers equipped with energy weapons designed for the specific purpose of anti-air support. And Energy weapons only take up as much space as they take up, many of these cruisers are very small. They could launch tens of thousands of missiles and deplete their reserves in an instant and wouldn't matter whatsoever.

            (And I haven't yet mentioned the literally hundreds of nuclear subs the US has. I very seriously doubt it would turn into a nuclear war, but if it did, China would have zero chance of hitting any US target and meanwhile the US would turn China into a nuclear wasteland)a would have zero chance of hitting any US target and meanwhile the US would turn China into a nuclear wasteland)
            If you need to believe in that, go ahead..

            But its impossible for a destroyer to kill some 10000 missiles aimed at a Super Carrier...
            They would obliterate not only the super-carrier, but the destroyers around..

            But you think the way you want too
            Also the Katyusha missiles were the ones used by Soviet Union against Nazis.. a lot of people said that they were more weapons of terror than effectiveness..

            The thing is.. Soviet Union mounted a War on Berlin with 4.5 Million Solders, but the Nazis were also around 4.5 Million Solders...
            So if the Katyusha were not effective... what lead to the same amount of soldiers to Win the war and march to the Bundestag???
            Right..

            And don't even speak about Submarines...
            After North Korea, China is the Country that have the biggest fleet..

            Comment


            • Originally posted by tuxd3v View Post
              If you need to believe in that, go ahead..

              But its impossible for a destroyer to kill some 10000 missiles aimed at a Super Carrier...
              They would obliterate not only the super-carrier, but the destroyers around..

              But you think the way you want too
              Also the Katyusha missiles were the ones used by Soviet Union against Nazis.. a lot of people said that they were more weapons of terror than effectiveness..

              The thing is.. Soviet Union mounted a War on Berlin with 4.5 Million Solders, but the Nazis were also around 4.5 Million Solders...
              So if the Katyusha were not effective... what lead to the same amount of soldiers to Win the war and march to the Bundestag???
              Right..

              And don't even speak about Submarines...
              After North Korea, China is the Country that have the biggest fleet..
              The US doesn't use destroyers. They are pointless. The US has enormous fleets of little bitty cruisers. There Are still destroyers but they are part of a larger fleet of cruisers.

              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ed_States_Navy
              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United...classification
              Check out how the ship classes are defined.

              (None of what is currently classified as a destroyer class would be classified as a destroyer if this was WW2 times....) (The old destroyer class of ages gone by are gone forever.)

              edit: Do really believe North Korea has a large submarine fleet? Really? Honestly?
              Last edited by duby229; 09-05-2019, 03:07 PM.

              Comment


              • LOL - did anyone else notice this thread is now in the "General Discussion - Anything off-topic." category?

                Gee... I wonder why.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by duby229 View Post
                  edit: Do really believe North Korea has a large submarine fleet? Really? Honestly?
                  I do Believe..
                  Since Submarines are Cheaper than Big boats to operate, and they are also more lethal..

                  What I don't believe, is North Korea having long mission submarines..
                  They should be smaller, but since they are for littoral areas they serve their purpose very well..

                  Yes is true ,
                  The globalisation of missile technology creates a different "landscape", in the battlefield scenes..for the good( defence ), and for the bad( attack )..

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by coder View Post
                    LOL - did anyone else notice this thread is now in the "General Discussion - Anything off-topic." category?

                    Gee... I wonder why.
                    You right,
                    Its been completely off topic..

                    Comment

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