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System76 Still Aiming To Be The Apple Of The Linux Space With Software & Hardware

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  • #51
    Originally posted by dega704 View Post
    Good lord I had almost forgotten how nitpicky some hardcore Linux users can be. No matter what kind of work a company does to advance desktop Linux, you'll still go through it with a fine toothed comb and look for things to whine about.

    When they talk about being like Apple, they're referring to the one thing Apple does right: paying some blasted attention to user experience and making hardware and software that feels polished and functional without having to spend 5 hours googling and learning some arcane bullsh*t just to make a particular thing work correctly.
    Apple pays the most attention to exploiting its users' wallets. It does a lackluster job of much else, especially these days. I'm typing this from a 2013 Macbook Pro running an outdated version of OS (according to the mighty Apple) and, despite its flaws, I wouldn't trade it for a recent machine nor the latest OS. Apple loves to constantly reduce the featureset of the OS, erode the usability of the product to gain more profit (dongles, inferior power cable design vs. MagSafe, etc.), change the UI again and again, and force-feed its users cloud-based spyware. Want to create a list of every file you've downloaded, every site you've visited, and every file you've opened and send that data to both Apple and MS? Use OS X.

    It lies relentlessly about caring about user privacy, while simultaneously engaging in all sorts of dirty tricks — like putting deleted logs into unallocated space, using all sorts of unnecessary metadata that users can't readily control, placing special notices in directories if a user has the audacity to turn off some of the spyware, and on and on. Apple is no better than Microsoft when it comes to abusing its customers but it lies about it more effectively because there are a lot of lemmings out there who are convinced Apple really gives two cents about protecting individual liberty/agency rather than lubricating the acquiring of billions more dollars by doing whatever rubber-stamp secret authorities dictate.

    Windows 10 is worse. We're in a truly shabby situation. OS X, which has never been great in the UI department nor in the transparency department, continues to deteriorate. The Internet is becoming more of a script nightmare honeypot each day. Spyware is being built into CPUs and other products more and more. Even Linux has questionable qualities, like the debate over systemd and the security disaster that is Firefox.

    Apple and MS are parasites, like any truly effective corporation. That's the point of them, after all. Sell less for more. As Ambrose Bierce said... individual profit, no individual responsibility. Insiders actually said, without a hint of shame, on MSNBC, that the Justice Department has a policy of avoiding charging corporate executive criminals — instead going for the strategy of fining the companies. So, while they plunder everyone we can fixate on the latest tawdry sex scandal.

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    • #52
      Originally posted by cynical View Post
      Can’t say the comments here aren’t predictable. We can’t have any company trying to make desktop Linux successful. They are the enemy, and they must be destroyed.
      There are a lot of things in this world that have been both bad and successful. Sometimes there is more to aspire to than selling a lot of something. Sometimes the aspiration is to improve the world rather than merely to skim a profit off of it.

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      • #53
        Originally posted by dega704 View Post
        When they talk about being like Apple, they're referring to the one thing Apple does right: paying some blasted attention to user experience and making hardware and software that feels polished and functional
        Do you have one of the recent "all dongles all the time" Macbook Pros? The ones that also lack the superior MagSafe connector? The ones with the inferior keyboards?

        Have you seen the constant removal of features from the operating system?

        I can talk about what Apple is good at...

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        • #54
          Originally posted by schmidtbag View Post
          So... what do you make of Coreboot then? Because if you want them to use a common infrastructure, you're probably going to have to give that up.
          It's understandable why they go via Coreboot route and this choice is preferred by their target audience. On other hand there is no reason (besides NIH) to use own BIOS upgrade infrastructure.

          Originally posted by wizard69 View Post
          Why should System 76 be required to use any one bios update solution. That makes about as much sense as insisting that all scripting be done in BASH on Linux. Even more so it is like the idiots that insist that E-Mail must be text based. There is no need for this attitude in the Linux world.
          It doesn't makes sense because you are the one who said "required". The right question is: why reinvent the wheel? What problems of tested and robust fwupd (that end user need to use anyway to upgrade everything else besides own System76 firmware, for example Logitech receivers, Thunderbolt eGPU boxes, Bluetooth headsets or something else) was solved by System76 own updater? They did it... for what?

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          • #55
            Originally posted by RussianNeuroMancer View Post

            It's understandable why they go via Coreboot route and this choice is preferred by their target audience. On other hand there is no reason (besides NIH) to use own BIOS upgrade infrastructure.



            It doesn't makes sense because you are the one who said "required". The right question is: why reinvent the wheel? What problems of tested and robust fwupd (that end user need to use anyway to upgrade everything else besides own System76 firmware, for example Logitech receivers, Thunderbolt eGPU boxes, Bluetooth headsets or something else) was solved by System76 own updater? They did it... for what?
            One of strengths of the Linux eco-system is promotion of diversity, and freedom of choice. Why System76 shouldn't have made their own updater?

            I guess, they had reasons,.. and, maybe some requirements, which weren't fulfilled by fwupd, especially maybe some core architecture differences?

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            • #56
              Originally posted by mmstick View Post

              It's okay. We sort of have to expect this. Yet they're by far and large a vocal minority. Most of them just read the headline and go straight for the comment section :P
              In the end, all people vote with money. People buy products fulfilling their needs and their desires,... also people do support movements they like.

              I love Linux and FOSS, and would have supported HW vendor focused on Linux and FOSS. However, my need is to be "better safe than sorry" regarding spill/splash resistant keyboard, and I didn't find System76 laptop, which provides spill/splash resistant keyboard.

              Regarding desires, and other movement support,... AMD is currently the only FOSS friendly maker of dedicated GPU(s),... and NVidia is quite hostile towards FOSS,.. So, I would strongly prefer laptops with AMD GPU,... acceptable are also laptops with Intel only iGPU,.. but, NVidia is no-go.

              Comment


              • #57
                Originally posted by tildearrow View Post



                Why so?
                Not sure about German, but in Dutch "popos" is a childish kind of slang meaning "police officers/cops".

                Comment


                • #58
                  Originally posted by tildearrow View Post
                  Why so?
                  "Poppen" is a synonym for copulating. And "Popos" is the plural of "bum".

                  Comment


                  • #59
                    Originally posted by kravemir View Post
                    I guess, they had reasons,.. and, maybe some requirements, which weren't fulfilled by fwupd, especially maybe some core architecture differences?
                    If you didn't noticed these days updating BIOS is done by putting new version into UEFI Capsule. So I eager to know what reasons they have, what unfixable requirements were here, and what core architecture difference in putting update into UEFI Capsule there could be?

                    Originally posted by kravemir View Post
                    One of strengths of the Linux eco-system is promotion of diversity, and freedom of choice. Why System76 shouldn't have made their own updater?
                    They are free to do what they want. I am free to ask "what the hell were they thinking?!" here. Pretty sure when we will find out why they did this, it will be something like Canonical explanation for writing Mir - misinformation with no single good reason left.
                    Last edited by RussianNeuroMancer; 08-21-2019, 01:16 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #60
                      Originally posted by DavidKL View Post
                      Apple pays the most attention to exploiting its users' wallets. It does a lackluster job of much else, especially these days. I'm typing this from a 2013 Macbook Pro running an outdated version of OS (according to the mighty Apple) and, despite its flaws, I wouldn't trade it for a recent machine nor the latest OS. Apple loves to constantly reduce the featureset of the OS, erode the usability of the product to gain more profit (dongles, inferior power cable design vs. MagSafe, etc.), change the UI again and again, and force-feed its users cloud-based spyware. Want to create a list of every file you've downloaded, every site you've visited, and every file you've opened and send that data to both Apple and MS? Use OS X.

                      It lies relentlessly about caring about user privacy, while simultaneously engaging in all sorts of dirty tricks — like putting deleted logs into unallocated space, using all sorts of unnecessary metadata that users can't readily control, placing special notices in directories if a user has the audacity to turn off some of the spyware, and on and on. Apple is no better than Microsoft when it comes to abusing its customers but it lies about it more effectively because there are a lot of lemmings out there who are convinced Apple really gives two cents about protecting individual liberty/agency rather than lubricating the acquiring of billions more dollars by doing whatever rubber-stamp secret authorities dictate.

                      Windows 10 is worse. We're in a truly shabby situation. OS X, which has never been great in the UI department nor in the transparency department, continues to deteriorate. The Internet is becoming more of a script nightmare honeypot each day. Spyware is being built into CPUs and other products more and more. Even Linux has questionable qualities, like the debate over systemd and the security disaster that is Firefox.

                      Apple and MS are parasites, like any truly effective corporation. That's the point of them, after all. Sell less for more. As Ambrose Bierce said... individual profit, no individual responsibility. Insiders actually said, without a hint of shame, on MSNBC, that the Justice Department has a policy of avoiding charging corporate executive criminals — instead going for the strategy of fining the companies. So, while they plunder everyone we can fixate on the latest tawdry sex scandal.
                      Wow. I did not know it was at that level in OSX. Do you have any references about OSX literally hiding info in unallocated space? That's hardcore.

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