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CERN Is Working To Move Further Away From Microsoft Due To License Costs Going Up By 10x

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  • #81
    Originally posted by IreMinMon View Post

    The commission is corrupt, anything else is just daydreaming. Do you know what the agenda for Germany + entire ALDE, greens and S&D is? They want to use ECB and EIB to fund their private sector "green tech" companies in western Europe (mostly Germany). It will make many people rich, mostly those who are rich already and have good political connections. Basically a wealth transfer from periphery to the core. Then the Germans plan to license intellectual property that comes from investments from our money and basically become a "green Microsoft".

    I've had some data somewhere, would have to find it again - don't get fooled by EU budget spending - EIB and ECB investments are much larger in € value and most of them go to western Europe.
    https://youtu.be/mBS0OWGUidc?t=37

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    • #82
      Originally posted by wizard69 View Post
      As as much as I like KiCAD I have to disagree. KiCAD, Scientific Linux and other are a complete waste of the public’s money, if the focus of CERN is nuclear research.
      Remember that to do Nuclear research were no Other Human have been, you need to develop your own tools..
      So Yes Kicad really matter, Scientific Linux Really Matter..

      Since sensors to specialised boards, synthetic new materials, that you don't find in any part, that is part of nuclear Research, with a big focus on Sensors, and so on..
      Things that without them, you simply don't do Nuclear research, at the level CERN Does..

      They are at the top of the line, and beyond.. So no tools exist for that, remember that..

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      • #83
        Originally posted by wizard69 View Post
        As as much as I like KiCAD I have to disagree. KiCAD, Scientific Linux and other are a complete waste of the public’s money, if the focus of CERN is nuclear research.

        An issue that could have been addressed with commercial software at a lower cost.
        Define lower cost. Problem comes peer review. Remember part of doing nuclear research is designing boards and peer reviewing them to make sure they will function the correct way to get results.

        Originally posted by wizard69 View Post
        I’m not really bothered by open hardware developed for a specific need as long as that hardware is justified due to the lack of Existing solutions. In fact anything developed with public money should be available to the public. What I object to is reinventing the wheel for no good reason. In other words a jobs program.

        I really doubt that KiCAD does anything unique here. I just see these projects as poor management on the part of the leadership at CERN.
        You keep on missing it. You have open design done in a closed source commercial software. Only people who can look at design in detail own/buy that software.

        By using KiCAD anyone can install it and peer review the design. This does open up a lot more interesting tests for review as well.
        https://indico.cern.ch/event/775526/...lectronics.pdf
        This is a presentation by CERN staff they state the clear reason why they have gone KiCAD on page 26 and goal 27.

        So this is not my guess. It your wild guess that going commercial software was lower cost.
        1) KiCad has a history of the newer version being able to open the older files perfectly. The commercial software in PCB field don't have that.
        2) KiCad without question is lower cost once you start having to buy commercial software for your staff and outside staff you may wish have peer review what you are doing.
        3) the incompatibilities between the closed source software versions with PCB software means someone could be reporting a fault in the design that only exists due to a software defect. Peer reviewing with different versions of software bring headaches at times. Note if there is a version issue with KiCad its still free to install the old version. Life is better in design if everyone is using the same software.

        Sometimes just because there are existing solutions does not mean all those existing solutions don't have a major deal breaker. Yes there are tones of closed source solutions for PCB design just they are a incompatible mess. As CERN puts it PCD create software look like the world of C compilers before gcc being a fragmented mess.

        Scientific Linux you have to remember a lot of the new unique software that CERN and other groups developing Scientific Linux made is now in Centos/Redhat and Debian as stock standard tools. At the time Scientific Linux started was absolutely not a waste. The fact that Scientific Linux end up without any unique features left then it came a waste.

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        • #84
          one might mention that commercial CAD /FEM software licenses are quite expensive. in common cases 2 annual licenses could cover a fulltime programmer position.

          M$ is not that expensive ...but the single license cost for win and office is as high as an office pc itself.

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          • #85
            the CERN boys should go back in time and create a mandela effect that sweeps away microsoft even before it was born.
            hehehe

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            • #86
              Originally posted by nokipaike View Post
              the CERN boys should go back in time and create a mandela effect that sweeps away microsoft even before it was born.
              hehehe
              then maybe Linus will be the bad guy and sell you Linux Licenses .... and BIll will put the middlefinger to Nvidia because of their bad opensource Windows driver ....

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              • #87
                1. why are here some people (I didn't count the names maybe it's only 1 2 guys that wrote a lot of comments) that here hating on linux and free software and say that Windows / Proprietary software would be better, why are you writing on a web site that is about news / promoting of free software or at least linux?
                I also don't go windowscentral.com and tell them how great Linux is. Are you paid by Microsoft to do that?

                2. It doesn't matter if short term Microsoft would still be cheaper than using Opensource for some computers, because it's a institute that get money from the public, as public it's important that no cent get's to such a horrible monopolistic company that is detrimental to the whole society and them spending more money but towards better opensource software does benefit the whole society, by smaller companies / individuals having access to better free software.

                3. it also don't matter to maybe pay (or better invest with monetary benefits in the long run) more for opensource because the longer the more people use the proprietary solutions and don't start investing in closing the gap in features between free and proprietary software and the more documents you might have in a evil proprietary format so you get vendor locked in harder. So nothing really stops microsoft to raise the prices another 1000% in 5 years. So extreme is unlikely but even 300% would be horrible. Or they could steadily raise the prices 20% every year nonstop NOTHING stops them to do that.

                4. there is a huge vector for the US government for using this blackbox trojan software to spy with it or even sabotage them. They then don't not even find 0-days to da that they just WRITE the "0-days" and send them as update. And they have done similar things in the past with stuxnet as example.

                You are of course not totally save against such attacks by just not using software but again it's at least cheaper to attack such system where you have intentionally included backdoors from Microsoft and Microsoft has total control over that machines by design.

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                • #88
                  I don't think anyone is hating on linux here. What is being pointed out is that the psychology of CERN as an organisation is such that some of the outcomes suggested here are very unlikely to happen.

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                  • #89
                    blackiwid well said, Sir! ... to the last comment: one might use the rejected NSA Algorithms as an example how constant peer review is good for everyone (maybe not for NSA).

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