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CERN Is Working To Move Further Away From Microsoft Due To License Costs Going Up By 10x

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  • #41
    Being CERN a reference scientific institution, I would have preferred reading that the driver for the shift was because of philosophical reasons, but the change is welcome anyway.


    • #42
      Originally posted by CochainComplex View Post

      Our Research Institute (the same happened to our liceneses) is listed as a GmbH (German version of Limited) since decades maybe from the Beginning (1960ies). Never an issue because it is doing only fundamental research and is owned and funded by the federal republic of Germany. It also gets some money from our states. But its purpose is research and education. And 4 years back MS has said a GmbH is not education so no education discount.
      At the end. just BS to squeeze out more money...

      CERN is international so it is difficult to find a legal "form of company". Thats why the most international Research Institutes are listed as companies but funded by international money. And in the field of particle physics profit can not be achieved. So its purpose is by definition pure research and education and not profit as the legal form of company might be suggesting.

      That Microsoft employee was clearly lacking some training in German law. But I have to admit that laymen can fall for that fallacy pretty easily as there is also a "gGmbH" (which is a special form for non-profit GmbH's enjoying some tax benefits). It lacks some flexibility though especially in pursuing and distributing profits. But as a gGmbH it would have been at least easier to prove your point to Microsoft. But of course the existence of this special form doesn't mean that all GmbH's are strictly for-profit oriented, especially the state-owned ones.

      There is also the possibility to re-structure it as a public institution. But that brings other challenges with it and might be impractical.
      Last edited by ms178; 12 June 2019, 04:26 PM.


      • #43
        The cost of MS software bleeding you dry is something every organisation should be looking into.


        • #44
          Originally posted by spykes View Post
          This is common sense, and a welcome decision.
          I’m not even sure how they managed to be called an educational institution at all.

          However CERN is a perfect example of massive government waste. They are spending more r have spent way too much money on things not associated with their research efforts. Somethings like KiCAD simply should not have been developed at CERN as it just leads to a mammoth organization that isn’t always working directly on nuclear research. In the end they spend far too much money on stuff that isn’t advancing science. I suspect this is why some of the national labs lost interest in Scientific Linux.

          By the way I'm not saying that labs should do open source but rather that open source should be directly focused on the science. I wouldn’t be surprised to find out that some of these projects end up costing tax payers more than simply buying the software to begin with. Buying could mean a Linux service contract or a more traditional licensing of a CAD program.


          • #45
            Originally posted by L_A_G View Post
            I see the old Microsoft is still alive and kicking despite what their current CEO keeps trying to insist...

            Seriously thou, how is an academic research institute focused on particle physics not an academic institution? Because it sounds like what they actually mean when they say "academic" is "education" and their primary reason for these discounts is essentially the same reason why drug dealers always give first time customers a discount.
            CERN has lost its way frankly and of late seems to exist to simply grow bigger. It has become more of a Jobs institution rather than an academic one. It isn’t like a lot of people employees at CERN leave to pursue other activities. Yes they have student programs, I personally know one gal that spent a summer there, but so do a lot of other businesses.


            • #46
              Originally posted by microcode View Post
              Hard to say whether CERN is making a sincere effort here, but it's pretty hilarious that they're not considered an academic institution; I guess it's probably Microsoft realizing that people don't move on from CERN to expect Windows at their next workplace.
              They are not an academic institution at all. Rather they are a conglomerate of government institutions.

              CERN is a serious money pit so trying to save money is good. However hiring a bunch of programmers to write software that is available else where (commercial or open source) is absolutely asinine. Sadly this smacks of an effort by management at CERN to increase their size yet again.


              • #47
                Originally posted by Dedale View Post
                And the WWW was also outside of the scope of CERN ?
                Actually it is. The problem with CERN is all the little projects that siphon money off from their supposed goal of doing basic research in physics. The development of the WWW was dependent upon CERN. Hell you could even say that the development of the WWW at CERN was money well spent. However there are far too many tangents at CERN that can only be described as a waste of tax payer money. This is the problem, massive expenditures with little payoff.


                • #48
                  They are already on linux for their work programs. Apparently their tech support is non-existant, because the are on reddit asking for help. The MS bit is likely email, which is more the sysadmins fault than theirs.


                  • #49
                    This is incredible news!
                    If someone woud've asked me before this day what OS I think CERN scientists use, I would've said:
                    "For sure Linux!"

                    I can't believe that I trusted these guys to be smarter than me and in reality seem to me just a bunch of stupid monkeys following bananas.

                    If I was afraid before that they started the LHC which might bring the end of us all by creating some black hole or wormhole, now I'm more afraid that these guys are just plain idiots playing with fire and they don't even know what they are doing.
                    What's next to hear, that they use Windows 10 ?

                    Seriously, with this news, CERN and the people working there lost all respect from me.

                    As for why Microsoft asks for more money, I think answer is that because they can.
                    As long as Europe is stupid / corrupt enough to use proprietary / closed-souce software for its research centers and governments, Microsoft and along with it USA will thrive on this like they did in the past.
                    Stupidity / corruption allways costs money or more than that.

                    Shame on CERN and shame on Europe for funding this institution which clearly doesn't understant the basic principles of software.
                    Last edited by Danny3; 12 June 2019, 06:51 PM.


                    • #50
                      Originally posted by ms178 View Post
                      I'd like to see the European Commission and other public institutions follow suit in getting rid of Microsoft and promoting open source software more. Not only due to security concerns, but It would also help the European Processor Initiative.
                      Do you even realize how corrupt these people are?
                      Nothing of this sort is ever going to happen. These are the people who got us the copyright directive. And the corruption still goes much deeper.