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  • #11
    I'm sceptical of things like Outreachy, whilst I think their intentions are good and I respect wanting to do something positive, i think it's trying to solve an symptom and not the cause.

    Anyone and everyone should be encouraged and helped to get into programming and working on projects. There's nothing about programming that restricts it to white heterosexual males, so I think it is worth raising an eyebrow as to why the demographic of people who take computer-related jobs are dominated by them (taking into account the demographic of the location). But you don't solve this by reverse discriminating, because that doesn't solve the issue. For example gender-separated toys might from an early age persuade more boys to get into engineering-type jobs than girls.

    and contributions/employment should be considered on code, merit and behaviour (it's understandable not to want someone who's an arsehole helping your project) , not because of identity politics. We're already seeing the latter play out, where white straight men are not employed because of 'quotas' or a minority is employed because it 'looks good'. seriously, wtf.

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    • #12
      Originally posted by uid313 View Post
      This got me turned on

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      • #13
        Originally posted by jacob View Post
        Would it be legally possible to devise a software licence that would expressly prohibit any involvement of Outreachy?
        Horrible idea. Licenses needs to stay away from politics. Else you have such ridiculous licenses such as containing statements that forbids terrorists to use the software, or saying the software may not be used for production of weapons of mass destruction. It's just silly.

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        • #14
          Originally posted by uid313 View Post

          Horrible idea. Licenses needs to stay away from politics. Else you have such ridiculous licenses such as containing statements that forbids terrorists to use the software, or saying the software may not be used for production of weapons of mass destruction. It's just silly.
          Thank goodness. I was worried about my nuclear arms program for a minute there.

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          • #15
            Originally posted by Britoid View Post
            I'm sceptical of things like Outreachy, whilst I think their intentions are good and I respect wanting to do something positive, i think it's trying to solve an symptom and not the cause.

            Anyone and everyone should be encouraged and helped to get into programming and working on projects. There's nothing about programming that restricts it to white heterosexual males, so I think it is worth raising an eyebrow as to why the demographic of people who take computer-related jobs are dominated by them (taking into account the demographic of the location). But you don't solve this by reverse discriminating, because that doesn't solve the issue. For example gender-separated toys might from an early age persuade more boys to get into engineering-type jobs than girls.

            and contributions/employment should be considered on code, merit and behaviour (it's understandable not to want someone who's an arsehole helping your project) , not because of identity politics. We're already seeing the latter play out, where white straight men are not employed because of 'quotas' or a minority is employed because it 'looks good'. seriously, wtf.
            Finally, a truly sensible interpretation of Outreachy. I don't understand why this point of view is so difficult for people to have.

            There is a real problem at hand, but Outreachy isn't the right way to go about it, and more importantly, what Outreachy thinks is the problem isn't really the problem (this also applies to the people who dismiss it). More specifically, a group of people being a minority in a field isn't a problem in and of itself, but there are problems that come as consequences/side effects to that.

            However, as much as Outreachy isn't doing things the right way, many people on these forums aren't really any better:
            There are people here who disapprove of Outreachy simply because they believe the symptoms just simply don't exist, which is woefully (and ironically) ignorant.
            There are people here who disapprove of Outreachy because they believe the "surface symptoms" aren't a problem, while failing to understand that those symptoms aren't the thing to worry about. It's really no different than a doctor sending you home with generic antibiotics because you have common symptoms like a fever, when in fact you have malaria.
            There are people here who disapprove of Outreachy because they don't believe in discriminatory handicaps (which is fine), but not for the right reasons. Many of them express superiority over the minority groups Outreachy targets, which isn't ok.
            Last edited by schmidtbag; 05-07-2019, 09:27 AM.

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            • #16
              I think people will complain less of outreachy when they have more projects like the one highlighted by Michael, which are the ones with meaningful outcome .

              Like: one thing is port a gnome calculator to meson vs fix a then-unknown bottleneck in gallium infrastructure and improve perf in +10% for all drivers who uses it

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              • #17
                Originally posted by jacob View Post
                Would it be legally possible to devise a software licence that would expressly prohibit any involvement of Outreachy?
                I think refusing to put up a CoC or making sure it doesn't fit into the woke agenda should be enough. Trying to prohibit certain people from contributing in the license would make your software non-free.

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                • #18
                  Originally posted by uid313 View Post

                  Horrible idea. Licenses needs to stay away from politics. Else you have such ridiculous licenses such as containing statements that forbids terrorists to use the software, or saying the software may not be used for production of weapons of mass destruction. It's just silly.
                  That has been the case for decades - DOD licensing through legislation denying export to certain countries. Think Pgp.

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                  • #19
                    Originally posted by Britoid View Post
                    I'm sceptical of things like Outreachy, whilst I think their intentions are good and I respect wanting to do something positive, i think it's trying to solve an symptom and not the cause.

                    Anyone and everyone should be encouraged and helped to get into programming and working on projects. There's nothing about programming that restricts it to white heterosexual males, so I think it is worth raising an eyebrow as to why the demographic of people who take computer-related jobs are dominated by them (taking into account the demographic of the location). But you don't solve this by reverse discriminating, because that doesn't solve the issue. For example gender-separated toys might from an early age persuade more boys to get into engineering-type jobs than girls.

                    and contributions/employment should be considered on code, merit and behaviour (it's understandable not to want someone who's an arsehole helping your project) , not because of identity politics. We're already seeing the latter play out, where white straight men are not employed because of 'quotas' or a minority is employed because it 'looks good'. seriously, wtf.
                    Please educate yourself already and watch this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y252b9aEXpY

                    tl;dr : males are interested in things, women are interested in people. When given freedom of choice the sexes follow their natural strengths... and this is okay. It's perfectly fine and even good that the job market self segregates based on ability and interest like that, It's not a problem. The women who do go into tech (as well as the rest of STEM) have a very strong tendency to be tomboys which means their neurology is masculine even though they're otherwise a normal female (which has to do with hormone balances in the womb when they're developing as a child).

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                    • #20
                      Originally posted by Luke_Wolf View Post

                      Please educate yourself already and watch this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y252b9aEXpY

                      tl;dr : males are interested in things, women are interested in people. When given freedom of choice the sexes follow their natural strengths... and this is okay. It's perfectly fine and even good that the job market self segregates based on ability and interest like that, It's not a problem. The women who do go into tech (as well as the rest of STEM) have a very strong tendency to be tomboys which means their neurology is masculine even though they're otherwise a normal female (which has to do with hormone balances in the womb when they're developing as a child).
                      Claptrap. In fact *none* of the girls I've worked with have been tomboys. Typical incel perspective ...

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