Lennart Poettering Points Out That Fedora Workstation Could Lose Some Weight

[NotMine999]

First thought when I saw the title of this article: "Does this OS make me look fat?"

[Bsdisbetter]

Lol fanbois raging against each other. This popcorn is tasty.

[dekkzz78]

Unlike a lot of people around here, I don't hate Poettering, systemd, pulseaudio, or anything else related to them. However, the man is definitely a hypocrite if he's saying Fedora needs to lose weight. I like systemd but he keeps tacking on features nobody asked for.

Is it just me that his comments are just a subtle way pushing stuff to be replaced by systemd? it seems the ones most active on that fedora thread are systemd groupies wanting everything removed and replaced with systemd units.

[danmcgrew]

Lol fanbois raging against each other. This popcorn is tasty.

Fanboises don't know anything. About anything.
Fanboiseses don't have anything else to do.
So they eat their dead.
Pass the popcorn.

[duby229]

Not really. Also most of it is optional.

Bullshit, every piece of it is locked the fuck down so that every piece of it is either impossible or very difficult to use outside of systemd. -NONE- of systemd is optional, LP said specifically that was his entire goal.

[schmidtbag]

I claimed systemd makes much more sense on servers and that's where most of the features you talked about are aimed at. I also said the difference between reality and your baseless claims.

And yet you somehow don't know that the reality is how millions of servers out there don't use these features. How are you not realizing this?
It's getting boring hearing you say "baseless claims" every time something isn't done your way. It's becoming a meaningless catchphrase at this point.

by "tracking" I mean logging. Cron jobs per-se don't log a shit unless you set up a wrapper script doing the logging. Nor it can set a shit on the service without again a wrapper script.

Yes, I know what you meant. Logging stuff in cron isn't hard. You don't need to set up a wrapper script. It's no wonder you think cron is too hard when you go to such excessive lengths.

Containers are NOT sandboxes, they can have (or act as) sandboxing if you want.

*sigh* whatever, your pedantry is also getting tiring. Look, you're the one saying you can't do sandboxes without systemd, which is a "baseless claim" that you seem to be conveniently ignoring.

Yes, I'm very averse to waste time on bullshit.

lol no you aren't, that's the biggest lie you've told yet. Just look what you're doing now.

Server administration is a job. Whatever makes it easier is very welcome. I have enough bs to deal with from clients.

And despite what you think, stuff like cron isn't difficult. Did systemd make scheduling easier? In a lot of ways yeah, but I'm sure the amount of Linux-based server admins that actually use it are a small minority.

what is this even supposed to mean.

Considering how you're unaware that cron or containers can do what you said they couldn't, I guess you wouldn't understand.

Fuck off, this was clearly marked as a personal opinion.

You're the one making a fuss over opinions. I don't care what your opinions are and considering how much you want to dismiss mine, you're quite the egoist if you thought otherwise. Facts are all that matters and nearly everything you've stated so far has either been wrong, doesn't refute my points, or is subjective.

And you still didn't deliver.

I'm still not comprehending how a bug tracker is NOT a source for known problems. I suppose that means a dictionary is not a source to look up words?

Why did I ask for major issues? because it's not as easy as 1.2.3 and sorting issues on their bugtracker.

Yes... that's exactly why I dismissed the word "major"... How are you not getting that? There are problems worth addressing in that bugtracker in the way I had it sorted. Why do they have to be major problems?

You need experience with the tool to actually see what is a pain point and what is not, and only once you know that you can judge if the developers
are focusing enough on fixing bugs instead than adding features.

But I do use systemd, including stuff like custom services, udev rules, and I've dabbled with networkd... I have also used each of the tools it intends to replace, and unlike you, I don't have issues using any of them. So how am I the one who has a problem here when I work with "all of the above" just fine?

Don't you use something better that saves you time at work even if you know how to use the older system?

I migrated from cronjobs because systemd's timers are plain better. With cron I had to have wrapper scripts to deal with logging or dependencies or whatever else, which is hacky at best.

If it's simple enough or on a fresh new system, sure, the migration is worth it. But at the company I work at, we have hundreds of scheduled (and logged...) scripts at various intervals. The order in which some of these run is also important. Some of this stuff has been like this since the 90s, long before I was an employee. This is not an especially unusual scenario for many companies. We do have systemd installed but it is not at all worth migrating everything to it.

I'm not a programmer, I don't (truly) know nor want to learn about how to write a good, safe and readable script to do any fucking thing because the tooling sucks.

How the hell are you a Linux system admin and not know how to write decent scripts? That's like being a mechanic without a ratchet.

People managed perfectly fine without tap water, hospitals and semi-legally-enforced 8-hour work days back then. Is it a good reason to go back to the good old days of wells and rivers, herbal remedies and leeches, and "you work until it's done"? No.

lol uh, no? Things were not ok back then, but people tolerated it because that's all they could do. People died really young in those days and were utterly miserable. That doesn't even slightly compare even to your gripes about things like cron or LXC.

This is my point, you don't use systemd enough to understand the difference between starting a service with systemd and one with cron, and why the former is so much better than the latter.

I never said systemd's approach wasn't better; I never said cron was better. I said cron was perfectly adequate.

Then you may not need to use it, but just saying it's "not needed" or whatever just shows the thing you are accusing me of, your needs apply to everyone. Which is not true.

Except that's not what I meant. Now that these features exist and are used by many people, those people (including yourself) are now at a point where they arguably need it; that's fine, I never said otherwise. My point is creating these features wasn't necessary in the first place. So, it's more that they weren't needed, but now they are. This is why I'm not especially bothered by the features existing, and it's also why I'm not one of the people carrying pitchforks.

[pigpen]

Any plans to break up linux-firmware ? It's big, especially for small ARM SD card installs ...

[aht0]

Yeh. I expected him to find the answer to life, the universe and everything but I guess we'll both wrong.

That answer is 42

(according to Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy)

[Bsdisbetter]

Fanboises don't know anything. About anything.
Fanboiseses don't have anything else to do.
So they eat their dead.
Pass the popcorn.

It's like two fat boys arguing over the ugly girl; important to them, a side show to everyone else.

[rtfazeberdee]

I too am only referring to secondary features. I never said every distro is locked to such features, I'm just saying some are, so to say they're optional is a broad generalization.

Its not broad, you mentioned where the problem is and that is the distro itself, its not the systemd projects' problem. Its probably easier for the distro to bundle it all together and it doesn't mean any of the optional stuff is being used.