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Lennart Poettering Points Out That Fedora Workstation Could Lose Some Weight

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  • Originally posted by hreindl View Post

    how can eudev and elogind prove anything else than you are not the only fool, nothing new

    if it don't work how comes that it runs here for full 7 years on all sort of servers, routers, firewalls and desktop in production serving millions of requests every day? and in fact everything runs better and more secure these days as before systemd
    That's a flat out lie.... If you actually bothered to look at the code, you would immediately notice that internal dependencies have no organized structure. They've made very little to no effort to abstract anything. It's a big ass soup of internal dependencies that literally nobody can figure out..... As already proved by both eudev and elogind....


    • Originally posted by hreindl View Post

      how can it be a lie sitting in front of a production cluster which just works?
      are you on drugs?

      you are mixing completly different topics, that you personally don't like the code don't make it non-working
      there is abstraction and consolidation in /usr/lib64/

      that you want get rid auf anythign related to systemd is your fucking personal problem

      get it into your shithead that you can't demand from a developer that he writes code to make it easy or you rip it out and the only thing which bothers me as developer is that my code is for me and the persons which are supposed to maintain it maintainable and i couldn't care less about anybody not wanting to use it
      You're the the moron that doesn't get that it -can't- be used and it's -designed- that way on purpose. Trust me, you're the last person LP gives a fuck about. Systemd -does in fact- have tools that people want to use, that's a fact, but it's also a fact that those tools are -not- portable. Facts whether you like them or not.


      • Originally posted by hreindl View Post

        WTF are you talking about?
        what can't be used and why?

        systemd works out of the box as it is, that's a proven fact, no matter desktops, servers or embeded devices

        systemd as it is works just fine, when you only want to use parts of it that's just your fucking problem
        it's designed as it is for purpose, if you are not the target audience stay away
        if other developers using it als dependecny that's their decision

        well, that may mean fro you over time that you can't use that much opensource software as you like or need to learn deal with systemd, the world is cruel, but i couldn't care less because as said: it just works for 7 years in production, it's here, it stays, suck it

        i want that all the idiots which have no clue shut up and you are still here :-)
        No it doesn't, Linux on the desktop has much less than 1% marketshare and it's shrinking rapidly because of systemd. And also because of systemd -NONE- of those useful tools can be used -anywhere- else..... The whole entire thing is an anti-trust death wish.

        Maybe 1/4 of 1% of all people can use those tools as is..... Fact.... And that's exactly what LP wants and it's -NEVER- gonna get better than that until those tools are ported -out- of systemd.
        Last edited by duby229; 04-15-2019, 12:00 PM.


        • Originally posted by hreindl View Post

          what a pile of shit!

          a) nobody right in his mind cares about marketshare given that OSS is out of market
          b) the typical desktop user don't know what a init system is at all
          c) nobody cares about "anywhere else" in 2019

          Your whole stance stands on a monopoly position.
          a) requires such huge adoption that it wouldn't matter anymore
          b) requires an immensely ignorant userbase, because in fact systemd is much more than that
          c) requires every other alternative to be extinct

          And in all three of those cases you don't have anywhere near the monopoly position you believe you have.


          • Originally posted by hreindl View Post

            well, i have the postion that i can deal with

            a) i don't need to give a shit wo else is using something i use for my ego
            b) the userbase is ignorant and the large part with open mouth like you dumb
            c) is untrue, there can be as many alternatives as lied, i don#t care, the world don't care, use them and creep away
            Are you forgetting already? It was you who wrote what c) is....
            Originally posted by hreindl View Post
            c) nobody cares about "anywhere else" in 2019
            And you're right, c) certainly is untrue. It's why a) and b) are also untrue.


            • Originally posted by Britoid View Post
              > 5. libvirtd. Why is this running? Can't we make this socket activatable + exit-on-idel?
              This seems like a good idea, libvirtd is running using 15MB of memory doing exactly nothing until it's needed. Tbh CUPS should be an socket too.
              There is a old daemon that do that for tcp/udp, its called superdaemon, inetd! (or xinetd as a more advanced version) It is simple and uses little resources, just listen to the tcp/udp ports and calls the needed program to reply to that request. Do not really know if it can also support unix sockets

              so using xinetd or systemd, doing that kind of setup is simple WHEN the target daemon support that kind of "oneshot" request. Those little used daemons must be patched to support this kind of setup


              • Originally posted by Britoid View Post
                Yeh. I expected him to find the answer to life, the universe and everything but I guess we'll both wrong.

                This seems like a good idea, libvirtd is running using 15MB of memory doing exactly nothing until it's needed. Tbh CUPS should be an socket too.
                Though CUPS would need to be a couple of sockets, not sure if the various sockets it can be activated by are one process or several.


                • Back on topic, about Fedora loosing weight, I have to agree that Fedora Workstation installs tons of packages that may not be needed in 90% of the installations out there, like Smart Cards, iscsi, sssd, and others.

                  For example, one of my ansible playbooks removes the following packages by default on first install of a new Fedora system:

                  powerline, powerline-fonts, tmux-powerline, vim-powerline, vim-enhanced, pocl, ibus, ibus-cangjie, abrt, avahi, bluez, colord, gss*, cyrus-sasl-gssapi, *vnc*, iscsi*, iscsi-initiator-utils, sssd*, sssd, sssd-ad, sssd-client, sssd-common, sssd-common-pac, sssd-ipa, sssd-krb5, sssd-krb5-common, sssd-ldap, sssd-nfs-idmap, sssd-proxy, mcelog*, thunderbird, transmission, transmission-gtk, transmission-common, pidgin, *xaw*, xawtv, *setroubleshoot*, setroubleshoot-server, setroubleshoot-plugins, *dragora*, sos, plymouth, plymouth-core-libs, plymouth-graphics-libs, plymouth-plugin-label, plymouth-plugin-two-step, plymouth-scripts, plymouth-system-theme, plymouth-theme-charge, php-fpm, dnfdragora-updater, dnfdragora, xmlrpc-c, virtualbox-guest-additions, satyr, mariadb-gssapi-server, mariadb-rocksdb-engine, mariadb-tokudb-engine, tigervnc-server-minimal, fprintd, fprintd-pam, qemu-guest-agent, hyperv-daemons, hyperv-daemons-license, hypervfcopyd, hypervkvpd, hypervvssd, iodine-client, isdn4k-utils, lvm2, mactel-boot, ModemManager, onboard, spice-vdagent, teamd, open-vm-tools, open-vm-tools-desktop, realmd

                  and thats just one of the playbooks, there is another one that removes other types of packages... for a better desktop experience, I use the Cinnamon spin, of course, not that gnome3 garbage.