Systemd-Free Debian "Devuan" Planning Their First Developer Gathering This Spring

[swagg_boi]

I like systemd AND shell scripts.... I install my distro and then run my shell script to turn off the damn binary log files in /etc/systemd/journald.conf

I'm a believer in the Unix philosophy but not in mindless fanboi-ism. I have Slackware on my personal machines to tinker about and CentOS to try and stay abreast on what's going on in the enterprise world.

[cybertraveler]

I like systemd AND shell scripts.... I install my distro and then run my shell script to turn off the damn binary log files in /etc/systemd/journald.conf

I'm a believer in the Unix philosophy but not in mindless fanboi-ism. I have Slackware on my personal machines to tinker about and CentOS to try and stay abreast on what's going on in the enterprise world.

Wait? You don't have an opinion at one absolute extreme or another?

Michael: please ban this man from this forum. He clearly does not belong here!

[Danielsan]

A lot of people, here, had bet this project would be died in a week whereas now the devuan team is even holding their first dev summit, most of those people are still laughing at them while these guy demonstrated expertise, tenacity, consistency and resilience. Those people had better to stay in silence cause they fell in a epic fail...

[Compartmentalisation]

Well, 3 days event in Amsterdam only to tell the world they don't like systemd is not exactly quiet... That said, I think they're free to like and dislike anything they want, I just happen to have a lot of fun when I read their arguments for it...

Debian: we want to be the universal operating system based on free software
Ubuntu: we want to bring an open computing environment to all the people
Fedora: we want to advance open technologies every day
FreeBSD: we build upon an old heritage with a unified vision
Devuan: we hate systemd

[Weasel]

If a filedescriptor is open, you cannot unmount a partition, hardly an issue with systemd. Did you try to check which file was still opened using something like lsof?

Obviously, that's how I found out it was systemd holding it. Duh. It was months ago (as I mentioned) so I don't know the specifics, if I do it again I'll copy paste it.

The systemd libraries are in 90% of the cases a no-op if systemd is not running as PID1. Again hardly systemd fault if you force-uninstall shared libraries of your system...

I'm not sure what this has to do with what I said. I did not want to even touch systemd or interact with it, but as I said, it keeps getting in my way. In this case I just wanted to install some compilation components so I can test compile some stuff on latest Arch iso. Nothing really special. The package installation procedure gave me that conflict with systemd-libs and libsystemd so obviously it already got in my way. And then I opted to continue removing it because it was getting on my nerves and of course half the whole thing was bricked but not like I didn't mention this already.

To be specific: I had to remove it else I wouldn't have been able to install the damn packages I needed for compilation.

The point is I just want that piece of shit to stay away and stop getting in my fucking way, but it won't, it's always a problem with systemd whenever I try something in an Arch VM. Locking /usr, packaging problem or whatever, it's always systemd, even if not directly its fault, clearly it's a pain in the ass for packagers since they messed up here. Can't be a coincidence.

[jacob]

With all the crazy comments from everyone attacking Devuan because it doesn't use SystemD, I guess I'd better install it on everything I have.
You'd think this is some sort of religion or something, the way everybody is treating them like heretics.

I think it's the other way around. When virtually all distros decided that it was about time to replace a sh!tty implementation (sysvinit) of an obsolete concept (the init daemon), with a more modern concept and, hopefully, a better implementation, the VUAs were the ones who reacted with religious fanaticism. The comments today are simply laughing at them for that.

[jacob]

Yeah, why use a journaling filesystem when you can implement journaling with shell scripting, amirite?

Exactly. These are the four fundamental rules of the VUA Cult:

1. Everything shall be implemented through shell scripts.

2. Everything shall be buggy, error prone, brittle and require a full time admin to perform the most trivial of tasks

3. Everything shall be configurable, reconfigurable, meta configurable and OS independent to the point where it can hardly actually accomplish anything on any OS at all, particularly the one virtually all potential users are running

4. Everyone who expresses some doubts about this "philosophy" shall be insulted, yelled at and excommunicated from the Church of Unix.

[jacob]

A lot of people, here, had bet this project would be died in a week whereas now the devuan team is even holding their first dev summit, most of those people are still laughing at them while these guy demonstrated expertise, tenacity, consistency and resilience. Those people had better to stay in silence cause they fell in a epic fail...

It's more a case of pointing out the discrepancies between the initial grandstanding and the reality. We all remember how they "threatened" Debian, then how they promised that they would overtake Debian in a week and how everyone would immediately migrate to Devuan because, apparently, everyone obsesses about sticking with an archaic OS designed in 1972.

That was then. Now, of course, their impact on Debian and RedHat's user base is below any discernable statistical error and Devuan has joined the cohort of obscure me-too distros that no-one really cares about, especially not upstream software developers.

So yes, they have their developer summit. Bless them. As long as they have some users, they can prosper in their niche. That doesn't change the fact that their "init freedom" mantra is akin to those who swore that they would stick with MS-DOS and would never start using the NT kernel, because reasons.

[jacob]

Debian: we want to be the universal operating system based on free software
Ubuntu: we want to bring an open computing environment to all the people
Fedora: we want to advance open technologies every day
FreeBSD: we build upon an old heritage with a unified vision
Devuan: we hate systemd

Best comment of the year!

[Britoid]

It's more a case of pointing out the discrepancies between the initial grandstanding and the reality. We all remember how they "threatened" Debian, then how they promised that they would overtake Debian in a week and how everyone would immediately migrate to Devuan because, apparently, everyone obsesses about sticking with an archaic OS designed in 1972.

That was then. Now, of course, their impact on Debian and RedHat's user base is below any discernable statistical error and Devuan has joined the cohort of obscure me-too distros that no-one really cares about, especially not upstream software developers.

So yes, they have their developer summit. Bless them. As long as they have some users, they can prosper in their niche. That doesn't change the fact that their "init freedom" mantra is akin to those who swore that they would stick with MS-DOS and would never start using the NT kernel, because reasons.

it's got to the point where people hate on systemd simply because they don't want to admit they were wrong about it. there's too much pride.

next the criticism will be something along the lines of "Poettering is trying to get with your gf"

Debian: we want to be the universal operating system based on free software
Ubuntu: we want to bring an open computing environment to all the people
Fedora: we want to advance open technologies every day
FreeBSD: we build upon an old heritage with a unified vision
Devuan: we hate systemd

wasn't FreeBSD considering switching to launchd which inspired systemd?