Systemd-Free Debian "Devuan" Planning Their First Developer Gathering This Spring

[cybertraveler]

(Flatpak if not already can prevent applications from accessing the mic using pulse audio).

Oooh, nice!

Pulse Audio can also do noise cancellation but last time I tried it it works badly.

I've been meaning to play around with Pulse Audio filters. Is there a popular application you can use to do this which makes it easy? Presently the only app I use to interact with the Pulse Audio daemon is the "PulseAudio Volume Control" GUI app. It works well, but is pretty basic.

[Weasel]

I install Arch VM for test compiling some stuff. To ease on storage, I mount a squashfs/overlay into usr. But no, I can't unmount it later, because systemd locks it. Of course, it always has to be systemd that gets in my way.

I try similar thing months later and give up on my original idea (because systemd always gets in my way), now I update some packages and get "systemd-libs conflicts with libsystemd, uninstall? [y/N]" and I proceed with uninstalling that piece of shit libsystemd only to find out half the apps won't even launch now. So I manually copy all missing files in /usr from the original .iso back and have it work (yes, I know the setup is beyond repair at this point, but I don't care since it was a temporary VM only). God what a waste of half an hour.

Can systemd just go fuck itself? I'm sick of it controlling everything and getting in my way. I've never had this kind of issues on any other VM without it. Just fuck off already.

[cybertraveler]

I install Arch VM for test compiling some stuff. To ease on storage, I mount a squashfs/overlay into usr. But no, I can't unmount it later, because systemd locks it. Of course, it always has to be systemd that gets in my way.

I try similar thing months later and give up on my original idea (because systemd always gets in my way), now I update some packages and get "systemd-libs conflicts with libsystemd, uninstall? [y/N]" and I proceed with uninstalling that piece of shit libsystemd only to find out half the apps won't even launch now. So I manually copy all missing files in /usr from the original .iso back and have it work (yes, I know the setup is beyond repair at this point, but I don't care since it was a temporary VM only). God what a waste of half an hour.

Can systemd just go fuck itself? I'm sick of it controlling everything and getting in my way. I've never had this kind of issues on any other VM without it. Just fuck off already.

I feel your pain. I've had similar problems in the past.

My suggestion is to learn to embrace systemd on the systems that have it. I know you may not enjoy it, but it will get a whole lot easier for you. I speak from experience. If you learn how systemd works on your system and you learn to do things the systemd way, then things should flow much better for you. If you fight systemd at every turn, then... smokey my friend... you're entering a world of pain! -Walter

[Britoid]

I install Arch VM for test compiling some stuff. To ease on storage, I mount a squashfs/overlay into usr. But no, I can't unmount it later, because systemd locks it. Of course, it always has to be systemd that gets in my way.

I try similar thing months later and give up on my original idea (because systemd always gets in my way), now I update some packages and get "systemd-libs conflicts with libsystemd, uninstall? [y/N]" and I proceed with uninstalling that piece of shit libsystemd only to find out half the apps won't even launch now. So I manually copy all missing files in /usr from the original .iso back and have it work (yes, I know the setup is beyond repair at this point, but I don't care since it was a temporary VM only). God what a waste of half an hour.

Can systemd just go fuck itself? I'm sick of it controlling everything and getting in my way. I've never had this kind of issues on any other VM without it. Just fuck off already.

Thats a problem with you though, not systemd or the application.

[Vistaus]

Oooh, nice!



I've been meaning to play around with Pulse Audio filters. Is there a popular application you can use to do this which makes it easy? Presently the only app I use to interact with the Pulse Audio daemon is the "PulseAudio Volume Control" GUI app. It works well, but is pretty basic.

PulseEffects

[Weasel]

Thats a problem with you though, not systemd or the application.

Priceless. It literally explains the entire meme that systemd owns your PC here.

Q: "My system won't boot because systemd craps out, what do I do?"
A: "That's a problem with you, because you want to boot your PC, and systemd clearly doesn't want it, so it's your problem not systemd's, because it took control of your PC."

[Britoid]

Priceless. It literally explains the entire meme that systemd owns your PC here.

Q: "My system won't boot because systemd craps out, what do I do?"
A: "That's a problem with you, because you want to boot your PC, and systemd clearly doesn't want it, so it's your problem not systemd's, because it took control of your PC."

and people wonder why projects like this get laughed at.

[lucrus]

You know, it's kind of funny how the people who complain about those who don't like SystemD are way louder than those who just don't like it. This is particularly visible in Devuan-related discussions. It's almost like they're genuinely threatened by the idea that someone would actually make a SystemD-free distro and use it.

Well, 3 days event in Amsterdam only to tell the world they don't like systemd is not exactly quiet... That said, I think they're free to like and dislike anything they want, I just happen to have a lot of fun when I read their arguments for it...

[Bigon]

I install Arch VM for test compiling some stuff. To ease on storage, I mount a squashfs/overlay into usr. But no, I can't unmount it later, because systemd locks it. Of course, it always has to be systemd that gets in my way.

If a filedescriptor is open, you cannot unmount a partition, hardly an issue with systemd. Did you try to check which file was still opened using something like lsof?

I try similar thing months later and give up on my original idea (because systemd always gets in my way), now I update some packages and get "systemd-libs conflicts with libsystemd, uninstall? [y/N]" and I proceed with uninstalling that piece of shit libsystemd only to find out half the apps won't even launch now. So I manually copy all missing files in /usr from the original .iso back and have it work (yes, I know the setup is beyond repair at this point, but I don't care since it was a temporary VM only). God what a waste of half an hour.

Can systemd just go fuck itself? I'm sick of it controlling everything and getting in my way. I've never had this kind of issues on any other VM without it. Just fuck off already.

The systemd libraries are in 90% of the cases a no-op if systemd is not running as PID1. Again hardly systemd fault if you force-uninstall shared libraries of your system...

[JoePublic]

For fans of Devuan... "Debian without systemd"

Though Devuan is Debian-derived, there's a much more important difference between the two than choice of init system: Debian does not ever provide non-free packages unless you specifically include them, whereas Devuan as of "Ascii" has non-free packages on all official media, and may install them silently unless you suppress the behavior in "expert mode".

Search the file https://files.devuan.org/devuan_ascii/Release_notes.txt for the text "Non-free" for details explaining Devuan's divergence from Debian on this issue.

Devuan is, because of this fundamental difference, by no stretch of the imagination "Debian without systemd" given their opposite positions on non-free packages. Please don't repeat the "It's just Debian without systemd" lie; it doesn't get more true with the retelling. Saying this nonsense leads to people installing the thing and believing they have all free software installed, when they don't.

For people who care about software freedom, this is a significant difference.
For people who don't, it's a significant difference that they don't care about.
It's a significant difference either way.