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Apple's New Hardware With The T2 Security Chip Will Currently Block Linux From Booting

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  • #21
    Originally posted by Xaero_Vincent View Post
    Shouldn't disabling "Secure Boot" enable Linux bootloaders and therefore Linux to boot?
    Apple just wants you to have to try to boot into their OS first at least once. This ensures that they can force you through their DRM / activation process and effectively brick an unopened Apple machine as soon as they turn off their activation servers for that model.

    I think this is good. It is important for people to see that hardware is only going to get more hostile. I want them to jump though all the hoops and then try to tell me that keeping their freedom is too hard.

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    • #22
      Originally posted by Deavir View Post

      Unless you are a developer and want to test/develop on windows, macos and linux but don't want multiple machines around.
      On the other hand don’t most developers have multiple machines laying around?

      In the case of the Mac Mini I may seriously consider getting one, possibly next year, to run Mac OS. I really don’t see the Mini as being grossly over priced compared to similar Lonovo or NUC hardware. There are certain bad price points but I do have gray matter left between the ears.

      It will be very interesting to see how these new models test out. As for Linux I have to wonder if all those Linux developers Apple recently hired are working on a Linux solution for T2.

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      • #23
        Well, fuck you too Apple!

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        • #24
          Originally posted by L_A_G View Post
          This is a side effect of some understandable design choices from Apple, which include some pretty hefty disc encryption with the encryption key kept in an on-silicon secure enclave.
          Disk encryption has nothing to do with this, the issue is that the bootloader can't trust Linux because you cannot add a key for it, unlike most other decent UEFI Secure Boot implementations.

          A real world analogy would be burglar protection that ends up crippling handicap access.
          Nah, it's just another case of Apple being Apple.

          Seriously thou, not everything needs to be made for your purposes and considering how overpriced the new Mac Mini's are, Apple is probably doing as all a favor by doing this seeing how €900 for a machine with an i3 (quad core thou), 8GB or RAM and a 128 GB soldered-to-the-motherboard-SSD isn't exactly reasonable.
          Yeah, because the T2 isn't also used in their new laptops, and their laptops are shining beacons of "not overpriced".

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          • #25
            I think it's good. It'll eliminate a quarter of linux tech support posts. Can just point them to system76 or dell now.

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            • #26
              Originally posted by ThoreauHD View Post
              I think it's good. It'll eliminate a quarter of linux tech support posts. Can just point them to system76 or dell now.
              Please dont't forget Lenovo and HP:

              http://support.lenovo.com/us/en/solutions/pd031426

              https://certification.ubuntu.com/certification/make/HP/

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              • #27
                Originally posted by ALRBP View Post
                Honestly, I've always wondered why someone would buy highly overpriced Apple hardware to put GNU/Linux on it.
                I know some people buy Apple because it's cool and/or it shows that they have money to spend (often taxpayers' money, of my experience ; and after that, they say government must save money…) but a technically informed person (GNU/Linux user) should not do that.
                I also heard some people saying macOS is easier to use than GNU/Linux (macOS most probably not harder to use, but distros like Mint are easy to use ; the only potential hard thing is BIOS configuration when installing, especially with UEFI) and safer than Windows (which (10) I actually find pretty hard and inconvenient when I use it for games ; I will never use it again as main OS), but in this case, you do not put GNU/Linux on your mac.
                I think you have been mis informed about Apple hardware. Not all of it is grossly overpriced even the Mac Mini has machines with rational price points. In the case of the Mini and the MBA you are getting bleeding edge hardware with the T2 acting effectively as a co processor. Shop carefully and you will not be paying for a highly overpriced machine.

                As for Mac OS it is in fact worth the little bit of extra one pays for it. I run Mac hardware at home and on a few systems at work, mostly Windows at work and a few Linux machines at home. It is safe to say Mac OS is light years ahead of Linux and Windows when it comes to stability and reliability. It is also better supported than either of those platforms.

                I say this with complete confidence but also acknowledge that Mac OS is only supported on limited hardware. Windows is by far the most I’ll behaved OS out there. Linux is pretty good relative to Windows, in my case we are talking the Fedora flavor. Even Fedora is held back by the state of gnome and decisions made there to stay with old development strategy’s. Apples greatest advantage in my mind is their ability to drive third party developers in the right direction. That really started with the advent of LLVM/CLang, the focus on APIs and now Swift. Making things easy (most of the time) for developers has lead to a lot of good quality software for the Mac OS and IOS platforms. Contrast this with Linux that can leave you with broken apps just about anytime after an update.

                By by the way I’m not saying Apple is perfect and that software hasn’t been broken after an update or two. However the problem is far less on Mac OS than any other platform. You generally have only one major system update a year and with a solid focus on API stability you are not impacted nearly as much as on Linux. When there are issues you are at times anyways warned by Apple that some apps will require updates. On Linux broken software is always a surprise after an update.

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                • #28
                  Originally posted by Deavir View Post

                  Unless you are a developer and want to test/develop on windows, macos and linux but don't want multiple machines around.
                  Apple has no interest--nor does Microsoft--in catering to Linux on the consumer end of products. Both have their ecosystems for consumers and financially makes zero sense for them to cater to Linux consumers. Microsoft has extended Linux on servers for their cloud back end services to tie back into their Windows focused consumers and to a lesser extent Office for Mac.

                  Most developers who can't afford a laptop for each platform, or whatnot really have no business model and equity to work as a full-time developer.

                  Perhaps Michael could spare a piece of hardware seeing as he's gifted dozens of units per year? /s

                  To think Apple would ever open up the T2 to the Linux community is myopic at best, and moronic at worst. Their entire UEFI, HEVC, etc., is tied to that chip and will be in every product moving forward.

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                  • #29
                    No, they do NOT block Linux *entirely*: https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2018/11/...ant-boot-linux

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                    • #30
                      Originally posted by Marc Driftmeyer View Post
                      To think Apple would ever open up the T2 to the Linux community is myopic at best, and moronic at worst. Their entire UEFI, HEVC, etc., is tied to that chip and will be in every product moving forward.
                      You're right, so the following article is fake news then? https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2018/11/...ant-boot-linux

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