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The FSF Wants Microsoft To Do More To Help Fight Software Patents

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  • audir8
    replied
    Originally posted by makam View Post
    Sounds almost like abolishing proprietary software is not enough. Sounds almost like we should abolish all of... present day capitalism?
    Neither, just abolish software patents.

    Leave a comment:


  • makam
    replied
    Originally posted by jacob View Post

    Of course MS makes a good move for themselves. And that's how it should be. All the other companies that are usually considered good participants in the FOSS community - RedHat, Canonical, IBM, Google etc. (which, by the way, never meant that they should do ONLY FOSS software) are doing it for themselves. They are not charities. The FOSS community is based on an idea of what makes for ethical software development and distribution, and it's open to anyone who thinks it's worth engaging in. This move seems to indicate that MS has finally decided to bury the hatchet, become part of the FOSS community and be better of for it, rather than trying to destroy our community. The naysayers should be clear about what they want: do they expect Microsoft to do something that would be clearly NOT in their interest? Why would MS do that? Why would we want that for? Or would they perhaps prefer MS to stick to their old ways and proceed with an updated Halloween strategy?
    Sounds almost like abolishing proprietary software is not enough. Sounds almost like we should abolish all of... present day capitalism?

    Leave a comment:


  • audir8
    replied
    Originally posted by jacob View Post
    Maybe you have a short memory. When IBM embraced Linux big time in the early 2000's everyone DID congratulate them.
    When Sun released Solaris and Java as open source (even though it was deliberately anti-GPL) we did congratulate them.
    Every time Google or Facebook release something as open source it's appreciated and we congratulate them.
    So I say welcome to the bright side, Microsoft, now be good and play by the rules.

    Otherwise Microsoft and others will say that the FOSS community is just a bunch of whining activist children, and they will be right.
    None of those companies tried to shakedown Linux users the way MS has been for a decade or more. Linux did hurt IBM and Sun in some important markets, and their transition to embracing Linux and open source was a lot quicker and friendlier. There is nothing wrong with someone like the FSF asking MS to atone for it's software patent sins by asking it to help reform/get rid of them. It might be a bridge too far, but the fact that something like the LOT network exists basically means reform is needed. If there is ever another tech crash and patents get sold off again, we'll find out just how badly.

    I think MS has changed under Nadella, and they will still try to protect their market share, but it will be a fair fight now. Software patents are bad, and all of these actions are basically proving so.
    Last edited by audir8; 10-13-2018, 04:58 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Filiprino
    replied
    This patent agreement is in the same vein as the one they did with Novell. Now, it has a broader scope, the one of the OIN. It covers upstream code of the packages in this list: https://www.openinventionnetwork.com...=14&type=table
    under the following conditions: https://www.openinventionnetwork.com.../linux-system/

    So please, don't think this movement is the *right* thing. There's lot of software excluded from this patent license agreement. And organisations.

    They should upstream code under the GPLv3 and stop doing "special" agreements which only work under the USA laws. The GPLv3 includes explicit agreement for not patent trolling and world wide non-exclusive licenses.
    This agreement only works for OIN members. You, the little guy, are left out in the cold.

    OIN facilitates the sharing of patent rights between thousands of OIN community members, and the coverage for sharing is called OIN’s “Linux System”. The definition of the Linux System relevant to the OIN license agreement is described on this page and associated tables.
    What about *BSD? Hurd? musl? ulibc? Makemkv? FFMPEG? Mplayer? x264? x265? Bro? Suricata?
    Instead, they only cover glibc, Linux, systems using codecs in this table (https://www.openinventionnetwork.com...d=2&type=table) and snort. For example, merging code from snort into Suricata or Bro won't grant you anything, even though these two IDS have snort compatibility.

    So please, don't say this is a good thing. This is only good for the current monopolies living in the OIN and using Linux as a software platform for DRMed devices like Android phones. It's not something which removes the danger from the general community.

    Leave a comment:


  • jacob
    replied
    Originally posted by DrYak View Post
    Basically, Microsoft needs to answers questions like :

    - is it now safe to write opensource code that implements any of the FAT/exFAT filesystem tech that Microsoft olds patents on ? (like LFN or the whole of exFAT), in otherword, will upstream Linux kernel 5.xx be able to safely contain an exfat.ko without risk of attract the wrath of patent lawyers ?

    - is it now safe to write opensource codec for H.264 and H.265, at least for the parts on which Microsoft hold patents ? (Remember: there are multiple patent pools for H.265 - Microsoft might not have the capabilities to grand access to all patents regarding H.265) In other word can Firefox finally support MPEG4 AVC videos with its own opensource code ? (same for VLC, FFMPEG, XINE, etc.) Not that it will matter much on Internet in the future (AV-1 is on track on achieving the same dominance that OPUS has), but it's still relevant in TV media world.

    etc.
    IANAL but I don't think that the H.26x codecs are Microsoft's decision to make. They hold some of the patents but those are part of the MPEG-LA pool and we will sooner see snow in hell than this king of patent trolls being amenable to any discussion. It doesn't really matter anyway, MS is a member of AOM and is committed to AV1, so if nothing else, we have a competitive codec that is safe to use patent-wise.

    As for ExFAT, that's a good question, really. A clear statement from MS would be great. Of course if they really want to show that times have changed, they could themselves develop and contribute an official driver for it 😋

    Leave a comment:


  • jacob
    replied
    Originally posted by kpedersen View Post

    Exactly, and we don't congratulate IBM, Google et al for doing so do we? So why should we for Microsoft?
    Maybe you have a short memory. When IBM embraced Linux big time in the early 2000's everyone DID congratulate them.
    When Sun released Solaris and Java as open source (even though it was deliberately anti-GPL) we did congratulate them.
    Every time Google or Facebook release something as open source it's appreciated and we congratulate them.
    So I say welcome to the bright side, Microsoft, now be good and play by the rules.

    Otherwise Microsoft and others will say that the FOSS community is just a bunch of whining activist children, and they will be right.

    Leave a comment:


  • drohm
    replied
    Originally posted by anarki2 View Post
    Stupid. MS finally makes a good move, and instead of thanking them for it, they whine and demand for more stupid shit. Alrighty then.
    They deserve no "thanks" for it. They deserve everything they get - you reap what you sow.

    Leave a comment:


  • GI_Jack
    replied
    So Microsoft given intention to do a good thing, but nothing has been done you.

    I'll believe microsoft when the already written Linux exFAT kernel driver is merged into the mainline kernel with Microsoft's blessing.

    I'll believe them when they announce they drop their patent trolling against android.

    Leave a comment:


  • DrYak
    replied
    Basically, Microsoft needs to answers questions like :

    - is it now safe to write opensource code that implements any of the FAT/exFAT filesystem tech that Microsoft olds patents on ? (like LFN or the whole of exFAT), in otherword, will upstream Linux kernel 5.xx be able to safely contain an exfat.ko without risk of attract the wrath of patent lawyers ?

    - is it now safe to write opensource codec for H.264 and H.265, at least for the parts on which Microsoft hold patents ? (Remember: there are multiple patent pools for H.265 - Microsoft might not have the capabilities to grand access to all patents regarding H.265) In other word can Firefox finally support MPEG4 AVC videos with its own opensource code ? (same for VLC, FFMPEG, XINE, etc.) Not that it will matter much on Internet in the future (AV-1 is on track on achieving the same dominance that OPUS has), but it's still relevant in TV media world.

    etc.

    Leave a comment:


  • Weasel
    replied
    Originally posted by kpedersen View Post
    Exactly, and we don't congratulate IBM, Google et al for doing so do we? So why should we for Microsoft?
    Who said you should congratulate Microsoft? It's just about noticing good things for what they are, irrespective of company.

    But you know Microsoft and Nvidia have special spot on this forum for conspiracies.

    Leave a comment:

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