Originally posted by cybertraveler
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Facebook Continues Making Extensive Use Of systemd
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Originally posted by msotirov View PostSee, that's what I'm talking about. There is always some technical explanation or excuse but at the end of the day as far as the end user is concerned, the login on most modern distros does depend on logind and thus systemd. That's the reality of it. The technical reasons for that reality don't really matter, unless your hobby is building vs using OSes.
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Originally posted by cybertraveler View PostHandling dependencies natively in Upstart is absolutely trivial:
https://askubuntu.com/questions/4469.../450947#450947
In the very same answer you linked you can see how it failed for some server service (a database).
In another question linked to the side of that https://askubuntu.com/questions/1052...launching?rq=1
You can see some ways you can shoot yourself in the foot with it if you didn't know how to work around that.
1. You were comparing Upstart to systemd.
This discussion between me and you started when I posted https://www.phoronix.com/forums/foru...63#post1052263
You mean Gentoo's (and Alpine's) OpenRC. Afaik Upstart failed to reach its goals, Runit is way too simple (by design or not) to be useful for them.
Note how many times I did NOT mention systemd there.
2. It sounds to me like you're triggered because I called you out on your dishonesty and you consider honesty to be a moral virtue.
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Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
My "didn't handle really well multithreaded startup" meant what I clarified later,
I'm noticing a pattern with you starship
Originally posted by starshipeleven View PostPlease explain the class how you do it properly, because as I said I can have it work with dependencies too but it was a hack. I mean like having a single script run that handles the startup/stopping of my 5-6 payload applications in the correct order.
I have install PostgreSQL, Atlassian JIRA, Stash, Confluence and Crowd on a single Ubuntu 12.04 Server. They are integrated and working per Atlassian documentation. One thing I did notice is that...
Note: that's an Ubuntu 12.04 user. Upstart was gradually integrated with Ubuntu over time. It was designed that way to avoid disruption. Early versions of Ubuntu that adopted Upstart had a much larger sys v init style set of services than later versions. Ubuntu 14.04 (which is still supported even today) has more complete Upstart integration. Upstart is an incredibly flexible design that not alone worked well alongside sysvinit scripts but also later worked well alongside systemd components as Ubuntu migrated to systemd.
Originally posted by starshipeleven View PostThis isn't about systemd, stop this morally superior bullshit.
2. It sounds to me like you're triggered because I called you out on your dishonesty and you consider honesty to be a moral virtue. You can ask me to stop all you want. That wont stop me calling you out for shit like that. How about just accepting when you are wrong. We're all fallible humans that make mistakes.
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Originally posted by oiaohm View Post
[...]
Really we need to get all the desktop environment developers in the one project making 1 session manager they all use that is correctly connected to PAM and hopefully cross platform between Linux, BSD and others.
[...]
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Originally posted by cybertraveler View PostYou said:
"But for example it didnt't really handle well the multithreaded startup thing that OpenRC and Systemd do"
I cited evidence that, that is not true.
You also said:
"[the lack of multithreaded startup] is why most distros dropped it like a hot potato when it was the time to choose between that or Systemd or OpenRC"
My above fact invalidates it and Mark's comments about systemd further support the above fact. You statement is invalid. You are wrong and you know it.
This is also the thing that you should substitute in "[the lack of multithreaded startup]".
Your dishonesty is shining through again. Rather just accept you were wrong you're now arguing something entirely new in favour of your favourite init system.
Your new comments aren't even entirely correct. Upstart isn't a dependency based init system. That's by design. However can and does (in my system) start services based on dependencies. It just does it in a different way. There is no limitation of the design here. It just works differently; by design.
I'm not defending Upstart from an anti-systemd stance. I like both Upstart and systemd. They both have pros and cons.
This is about Upstart's failure, while both systemd and OpenRC don't have the same issue and this is one of the reasons serious distros have adopted either.
Note also oiaohm posts where he pulls up other reasons Upstart was a failure (and possible explanation for some weird situations I encountered).
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Originally posted by oiaohm View Post...
Yes the big noise about logind cleaning up processes when users logged out was so users could log back in and not be blocked by locked files caused by old sessions keeping on running.
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Re the bit I quoted: were people really complaining about this? It seems very sensible to me to terminate all user processes when a user logs out. That's the point of logging out: to end your session. If a user wanted their session (or parts of it) to persist, it would make sense for them to either lock screen or switch user (leaving their old session running). Or maybe if they need something running (like a bittorrent client) it should be running as a service. In the example of a Bittorrent client, there are Bittorrent clients like Deluge with a daemon backend and a number of front-ends you can connnect to it. A user could turn the daemon back-end into a service that would persist after they logout (that's an option anyway).
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