Facebook Continues Making Extensive Use Of systemd

[starshipeleven]

You said:

"But for example it didnt't really handle well the multithreaded startup thing that OpenRC and Systemd do"

I cited evidence that, that is not true.

You also said:
"[the lack of multithreaded startup] is why most distros dropped it like a hot potato when it was the time to choose between that or Systemd or OpenRC"

My above fact invalidates it and Mark's comments about systemd further support the above fact. You statement is invalid. You are wrong and you know it.

My "didn't handle really well multithreaded startup" meant what I clarified later, that it is event-based and not dependency based, so you can shoot yourself in the foot or it can screw up application loading order on its own. So yes it is multithreaded but it does so kinda wrong.

This is also the thing that you should substitute in "[the lack of multithreaded startup]".

Your dishonesty is shining through again. Rather just accept you were wrong you're now arguing something entirely new in favour of your favourite init system.

I clarified a very generic statement I wrote to see how you chose to read your own way to fit your narrative.

Your new comments aren't even entirely correct. Upstart isn't a dependency based init system. That's by design. However can and does (in my system) start services based on dependencies. It just does it in a different way. There is no limitation of the design here. It just works differently; by design.

Please explain the class how you do it properly, because as I said I can have it work with dependencies too but it was a hack. I mean like having a single script run that handles the startup/stopping of my 5-6 payload applications in the correct order.

I'm not defending Upstart from an anti-systemd stance. I like both Upstart and systemd. They both have pros and cons.

This isn't about systemd, stop this morally superior bullshit.

This is about Upstart's failure, while both systemd and OpenRC don't have the same issue and this is one of the reasons serious distros have adopted either.

Note also oiaohm posts where he pulls up other reasons Upstart was a failure (and possible explanation for some weird situations I encountered).

[Bigon]

[...]
Really we need to get all the desktop environment developers in the one project making 1 session manager they all use that is correctly connected to PAM and hopefully cross platform between Linux, BSD and others.
[...]

There is some work in GNOME to use systemd --user instead of gnome-session to start the different components of the desktop and consolidate everything there even (maybe) also the XDG autostart files, see: https://blogs.gnome.org/laney/2018/0...-with-systemd/

[brrrrttttt]

Thanks for a couple of really superb posts oiaohm!

[cybertraveler]

My "didn't handle really well multithreaded startup" meant what I clarified later,

Oh really!

I'm noticing a pattern with you starship

Please explain the class how you do it properly, because as I said I can have it work with dependencies too but it was a hack. I mean like having a single script run that handles the startup/stopping of my 5-6 payload applications in the correct order.

Handling dependencies natively in Upstart is absolutely trivial:

https://askubuntu.com/questions/446981/how-do-i-configure-my-upstart-scripts-to-take-dependencies-into-account/450947#450947

Note: that's an Ubuntu 12.04 user. Upstart was gradually integrated with Ubuntu over time. It was designed that way to avoid disruption. Early versions of Ubuntu that adopted Upstart had a much larger sys v init style set of services than later versions. Ubuntu 14.04 (which is still supported even today) has more complete Upstart integration. Upstart is an incredibly flexible design that not alone worked well alongside sysvinit scripts but also later worked well alongside systemd components as Ubuntu migrated to systemd.

This isn't about systemd, stop this morally superior bullshit.

1. You were comparing Upstart to systemd.

2. It sounds to me like you're triggered because I called you out on your dishonesty and you consider honesty to be a moral virtue. You can ask me to stop all you want. That wont stop me calling you out for shit like that. How about just accepting when you are wrong. We're all fallible humans that make mistakes.

[starshipeleven]

Handling dependencies natively in Upstart is absolutely trivial:

https://askubuntu.com/questions/4469.../450947#450947

If it worked all the time, yeah. Maybe now, many years later and with a list of caveats it works fine. But now is too late, competition has already killed it.

In the very same answer you linked you can see how it failed for some server service (a database).

In another question linked to the side of that https://askubuntu.com/questions/1052...launching?rq=1
You can see some ways you can shoot yourself in the foot with it if you didn't know how to work around that.

1. You were comparing Upstart to systemd.

Still reading stuff your own way? I'm just shitting on Upstart, I happen to prefer systemd but it's tangential.

This discussion between me and you started when I posted https://www.phoronix.com/forums/foru...63#post1052263

You mean Gentoo's (and Alpine's) OpenRC. Afaik Upstart failed to reach its goals, Runit is way too simple (by design or not) to be useful for them.

Note how many times I did NOT mention systemd there.

2. It sounds to me like you're triggered because I called you out on your dishonesty and you consider honesty to be a moral virtue.

No I'm triggered by people trying to claim things worked fine when I had massive PITAs with them at work.

[pal666]

So, are you suggesting that if I apt purge systemd from my Kubuntu, SDDM will still work and I'll be able to log into Plasma?

you changed your initial assertion from login to plasma
try

man login

[pal666]

There is no limitation of the design here.

lol why didn't you tell this upstart's author? he decided that there are unsolvable limitations and dropped upstart

[pal666]

See, that's what I'm talking about. There is always some technical explanation or excuse but at the end of the day as far as the end user is concerned, the login on most modern distros does depend on logind and thus systemd. That's the reality of it. The technical reasons for that reality don't really matter, unless your hobby is building vs using OSes.

if you don't have that hobby, then how do you know what is systemd anyway? use your os and be happy. only clueless os-builder-wannabes are concerned with systemd

[pal666]

https://askubuntu.com/questions/446981/how-do-i-configure-my-upstart-scripts-to-take-dependencies-into-account/450947#450947

you've linked example of idiocy i was explaining. if i only want to start postgresql to do some queries, that setup will fire four other services which need postgresql, but which i never asked to start