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Google Still Doesn't Trust Linux GPU Drivers Enough To Enable Chrome Video Acceleration

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  • #61
    Originally posted by Sonadow View Post

    Millions of Windows users all over the world build their own DIY PC from off-the-shelf component and successfully get a perfectly working system installed within two hours maximum. With perfect up-to-date drivers that enable full power management and unlocks the full capabilities of the hardware they paid money for.
    Those 2 hours do not include the time you take to update Windows. You can do a modern Linux install, updates included, in much less time.


    Originally posted by Sonadow View Post
    Unlike Linux. Look at the shitfest when Ryzen was released. Windows users had 0 problems on launch day; Linux users had to put up with black screens and kernels panicking on boot.
    Ryzen was messy on Windows too, at launch. BIOS, drivers, motherboards, memory, all of these take some time do adjust. You can find the experiences of those people on support forums or, if you prefer a more experienced opinion, reviewers on sites like HardOCP, Anandtech, etc.

    Windows hardware support is nice and dandy, when you have the drivers at hand. The messy stuff begins when you try to install things that lacks a install CD, do not have working support websites or hard to identify hardware. Even them, you better pray to be using the version of Windows they made drivers for. Ask anyone who works at PC maintenance to hear some nice bedtime horror stories.

    Originally posted by Sonadow View Post
    Windows users do that everyday and the OS doesn't shit on them for doing so. Install a package from elsewhere in Linux and there's a risk that the distribution won't even boot anymore after a reboot..

    Install software that does not come pre-installed with your machine can be a risk. Countless people had systems unstable or stopped from working afters some AMD or Nvidia driver upgrade on Windows. I have friends with Windows machines and they tell me about their problems. Video driver downgrade is not uncommon. And software utilities? You can really **** up a machine with software you can find on the web. I know because from time to time I have to remove those from Windows machines. The freedom Windows allows their users, comes at a price.

    Originally posted by Sonadow View Post
    Software applications like web browsers can auto-update on the fly in Windows; even today, Google and Mozilla can't even turn on the auto-updating features of their software in Linux by default because Linux's userland is so damn monolithic and glued together with stupid dependencies that result in the application suddenly failing to launch after an update.
    Firefox can auto-update on Linux. Download it from Mozilla, unpack it on your Home, and that's it; Chrome install his own repo when you get it from Google. Same day updates as Windows.

    If your distro messes things up after updates, maybe is the time to look for other one. You have this liberty of choice on Linux. Not so much on Windows.


    But do not think that I'm saying the Linux experience is always perfect, far from it. As you and most PC experienced users know, time taken to research well supported hardware AND software, is time well spent. Even if we talk about pre-installed Linux/Mac/Windows machines.

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    • #62
      Following the discussion, I didn't get this. VA-API is supported by all GPUs, so why can't Google developers use it?

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      • #63
        Originally posted by shmerl View Post
        Following the discussion, I didn't get this. VA-API is supported by all GPUs, so why can't Google developers use it?
        It's because there have been and still are to some extent several different implementations of va-api and they haven't all been equal. In todays world there is Intel's, gallium's and nvidia's wrapper. But they aren't all equal and there used to be more implementations, like the vdpau wrapper or the xvba wrapper that were even worse. It's actually been pretty good for a long time already, but it hasn't always been so.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Sonadow View Post
          Unlike Linux. Look at the shitfest when Ryzen was released. Windows users had 0 problems on launch day; Linux users had to put up with black screens and kernels panicking on boot.
          This is bullshit. Windows suffers from boot problems on updates, especially Windows 10, just as much if not more than Linux.

          Originally posted by Sonadow View Post
          Windows users do that everyday and the OS doesn't shit on them for doing so. Install a package from elsewhere in Linux and there's a risk that the distribution won't even boot anymore after a reboot.

          Software applications like web browsers can auto-update on the fly in Windows; even today, Google and Mozilla can't even turn on the auto-updating features of their software in Linux by default because Linux's userland is so damn monolithic and glued together with stupid dependencies that result in the application suddenly failing to launch after an update.
          It's because of 1) ELF being a retarded format and 2) userland library devs breaking the fucking ABI compatibility. Windows got it right here.

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          • #65
            Originally posted by [email protected] View Post
            You can really **** up a machine with software you can find on the web. I know because from time to time I have to remove those from Windows machines. The freedom Windows allows their users, comes at a price.
            You and the others just won't get it do you? Nobody fucking cares, they want the freedom to install whatever software they want, so the price it comes at is what most people don't care. This is obvious because that's what the majority does, by far. End of fucking story.

            Fuck central repositories or central stores and this bullshit pseudo-security. PPAs for example don't have this "security" either, and a lot of people use them too on Ubuntu.

            Some people may be retarded to download malware from dodgy sites, but you can test it yourself far better than a package maintainer. In the end, if it's software you really trust, you can trust the software DEVELOPER more than a "3rd party" repository (yes your distro is a 3rd party in respect to the development of the app).
            Last edited by Weasel; 03 October 2018, 01:49 PM.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by Britoid View Post

              This was ~10 months ago, application needed newer version of libvala (I think?) than what was in the 16.04 repo. Downloaded a newer deb of libvala, installing application worked. Now a bunch of other applications no longer work as they didn't like that version of libvala. Yes maybe it didn't happen to you, but it does still happen and it shouldn't.

              Windows has issues but this doesn't happen on Windows, partially because applications bundle their dependencies or by using runtimes (redistributables). Flatpak/Snap solves this by bundling dependencies and/or using runtimes. Android also bundles dependencies.

              The Linux desktop has issues, and people can blame nVidia, Google etc all people want but it doesn't solve that they're there.
              You installed an updated library from a different source tree and stuff broke....not to be rude, but that's on you for doing it wrong and not Linux. You should have installed both to /opt or locally to /$HOME/somewhere and loaded it with export LD_LIBRARY_PATH=$LD_LIBRARY_PATH:/path/to/the/lib /path/to/executable; made a chroot based on the OS of the library you used; any number of things other than contaminating an LTS system.

              Having to to crap like that is why I quit using LTS based distributions and prefer distributions that have better from-source support...Void, Arch, the Toos.

              On the Windows part, it's nice having Python and QT installed multiple times due to static linking and runtime bundling. It "fixes" it, but it also wastes a lot of space. Windows really needs ZFS and deduplication. ZFS on Linux is the shiznit and I'd like to give thanks to its devs if they happen to read this.

              IMHO, there's problems and issues with every OS. I dislike Windows past 2000 because they all feel too boated and I simply don't trust 7 and up to do what I tell them to do (I've had issues with settings being changed and tweaked with updates for the most part). Android sucks because there's no centralized update system for the actual system and I have to rely on manufacturers, cell phone carriers, or hope for decent Lineage/etc support. Linux has all its issues. OSX runs odd ass custom and old libraries...everything has issues and it all comes down to what we're willing to deal with.

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              • #67
                Originally posted by Weasel View Post
                This is bullshit. Windows suffers from boot problems on updates, especially Windows 10, just as much if not more than Linux..
                Yep. But Windows can go into Startup Repair and "fix itself". Although OSTree/Atomic Updates will help here, Linux drops you at a shell.

                Yes, people can fix that if you know what you're doing, but someone who's a complete novice at computing won't know what to do, and telling them to open up a Terminal will loose them.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by skeevy420 View Post

                  You installed an updated library from a different source tree and stuff broke....not to be rude, but that's on you for doing it wrong and not Linux. You should have installed both to /opt or locally to /$HOME/somewhere and loaded it with export LD_LIBRARY_PATH=$LD_LIBRARY_PATH:/path/to/the/lib /path/to/executable; made a chroot based on the OS of the library you used; any number of things other than contaminating an LTS system.

                  Having to to crap like that is why I quit using LTS based distributions and prefer distributions that have better from-source support...Void, Arch, the Toos.
                  I did end up using schroot. But your solution sure is something I can do but not a normal user.

                  I use LTS in a work environment. I'd love a system where the system packages are LTS but the applications are not, which is why Flatpak appeals to me.

                  Originally posted by skeevy420 View Post
                  Android sucks because there's no centralized update system for the actual system and I have to rely on manufacturers, cell phone carriers, or hope for decent Lineage/etc support.
                  Android can never have centralised updates, Linux would need a stable kernel ABI, which is one of the reasons Google is making their own kernel. Silicon makers release blobs for specific kernel versions. Treble helps by splitting the blobs from the system, which was some seriously dumb shit to do from the beginning. Android underneath is still very much an embedded OS.

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Britoid View Post

                    Yep. But Windows can go into Startup Repair and "fix itself". Although OSTree/Atomic Updates will help here, Linux drops you at a shell.
                    If you're lucky it'll fix itself. It hasn't for my since I started dual booting Linux. Anytime it did startup repair after dual booting it would fail and I'd have to play with BCDEdit & live gparted sessions. Either OS breaks and I have to use a shell in my experiences.

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by oooverclocker View Post
                      Nvidia users are used to being completely dependent on Nvidias goodwill anyway, so I don't think that any decision should even include considerations about this hardware. It's completely upon Nvidia how it works and none of our businesses.
                      More like a frustrating fact for linux useres who happened to buy their hardware based on merit and pricing. It's easier to find good deals on high performing nvidia cards than amd, but yeah, they fucking suck. EGLStreams, what a fucking joke, they sabotage their linux drivers on the regular, everytime a feature accidentally performs better on linux than windows they downgrade it touting that they want the drivers to be equal, and then they leave out support for fucktons of features that they only provide to their windows drivers. They're pieces of shit, btu they have the better hardwawre for better price points budget wise... Well had, until RTX, maybe I'll finally be able to justify buying an AMD card for other reasons than "AMD are a nicer company".

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