Outreachy Opens Applications For Open-Source Winter 2018 Internship Program

[Guest]

Let me get this straight. You guys hate Outreachy because it favors females. Correct? Do you guys have mothers, sisters, girlfriends, or wives? Would you not be happy if some company favored them in particular? Or are we beyond reasoning at this stage?

[mlau]

Absolutely disgusting racism and identity politics. Over here they would be legally recognized as a hate group.

They are a hate group. They hate everything and everyone that doesn't do what they say, deviates from their image of how a person should act, live, exist.
Like communists in eastern europe, but worse. Hiding their sinister agenda behind "justice" talk.

[mlau]

I'm a developer. I work with about 100 developers in our Sydney office. There's not a SINGLE person I've talked to who is against this kind of program, and in fact we have our own outreach programs for attracting and mentoring women in our industry. Therefore, I can very safely assume that the only people who are against this are the alt-right tools, incels, and insecure trolls. Which camp(s) are you in?

Of course they aren't against it, otherwise they would already have publicly been labeled "alt-right tools, incels, and insecure trolls", and fired as well. SJWs don't tolerate people with different opinions.

[dkasak]

Of course they aren't against it, otherwise they would already have publicly been labeled "alt-right tools, incels, and insecure trolls", and fired as well. SJWs don't tolerate people with different opinions.

Hahahahaha! Yeah, we're the intolerant ones, and the alt-right tools, incels and insecure trolls are the ones bringing harmony and diversity. The SJW term is interesting. If you think about it, you can see how twisted these loonies that throw around the term like an insult actually are. Campaigning for justice is a good thing. But these little boys are so messed up that they can twist this reality around on itself, and somehow end up the oppressed. And you wonder why you're also incels ...

[moilami]

I'm a developer. I work with about 100 developers in our Sydney office. There's not a SINGLE person I've talked to who is against this kind of program, and in fact we have our own outreach programs for attracting and mentoring women in our industry. Therefore, I can very safely assume that the only people who are against this are the alt-right tools, incels, and insecure trolls. Which camp(s) are you in?

Interesting, 100 devs and none is interested a bit about equality? Or too afraid to speak their mind about it?

I wonder which

[Guest]

Interesting, 100 devs and none is interested a bit about equality? Or too afraid to speak their mind about it?

I wonder which

There really is no limit to the nonsensical quality of your comment. Some people just like to go full retard. Fuck common sense, right?
I mean I can just stated that 1 + 1 = 2 and you will find a way to make it sound wrong...

[moilami]

There really is no limit to the nonsensical quality of your comment. Some people just like to go full retard. Fuck common sense, right?
I mean I can just stated that 1 + 1 = 2 and you will find a way to make it sound wrong...

I am a free thinker. My mind is free. How is yours? Or them "100 devs"?

[Guest]

I am a free thinker. My mind is free. How is yours? Or them "100 devs"?

Those 100 developers did not mind a program that aimed to introduce female software developers to the industry and promote equality. As participants of the industry, their view is what matters in real life. You can bitch all you want and you are of course entitled to your opinion but theirs is what counts. Yours will remain "an opinion". That is because I can ask where those 100 developers work, visit them, and they can explain to me why encouraging females to enter the industry is good.
This resembles the Torvalds case where I respected him to trying to keep linux kernel developers from breaking userspace.

[gens]

I'm a developer. I work with about 100 developers in our Sydney office. There's not a SINGLE person I've talked to who is against this kind of program, and in fact we have our own outreach programs for attracting and mentoring women in our industry. Therefore, I can very safely assume that the only people who are against this are the alt-right tools, incels, and insecure trolls. Which camp(s) are you in?

Note that i am not against this.
When it first started, the outreachy (was it another name ?), i criticized the way they were presenting it. They said it is for equality and quoted statistics about how few women there are in the IT industry. If i remember correctly that this low percentage of women was due to "toxic environments" and such, like men were at fault. I have a big problem when someone quotes statistics and then draws conclusions out of it. Women don't go into IT because.. well from my experience because women don't care that much about IT. Simple as that.
The outreachy program folk kept talking about sexism and racism and how they are all about fighting against it. The sexism and racism, in their eyes, is the statistic.

I wouldn't ever say anything about outreachy if it was just "hey, if you are a woman we can help you get started in IT", but it wasn't. You see, having a program that excludes based on sex and race is.. well it is racist and sexist. But i have no problem with racism and sexism in THIS CASE. I did have a problem with how it was represented.
There is also the view that helping women specifically just because they are women makes women look less capable. I know they are not, and so should they.

Not to say that there is no racism and sexism in IT. But there isn't that much in my country, and there isn't that much in the USA. There is probably more in Turkey and the countries south of it. Sexism is a local thing, mostly cultural. There is no fixed IT culture, as IT is practiced all over the world.

As to why these kids here are angry..
It's because Linus stepped down for a moment and IMMEDIATELY the 3'd wave feminists started harassing key people in Linux.

I'm all for equal treatment for everybody, but i am firmly against people like Coraline Ada Emke. People like her are obviously NOT for equal treatment for everybody. Adopting any socio-political document (that is what a code of conduct *is*) should be done with great care, especially if the person who wrote it is obviously about power and is obviously sexist. Sorry for this last paragraph, just had to write it down somewhere.

Does that clear things up for you ?

[L_A_G]

I'm a developer. I work with about 100 developers in our Sydney office. There's not a SINGLE person I've talked to who is against this kind of program, and in fact we have our own outreach programs for attracting and mentoring women in our industry. Therefore, I can very safely assume that the only people who are against this are the alt-right tools, incels, and insecure trolls. Which camp(s) are you in?

Have you considered that in a group as big as that, nobody speaking up about programs that can easily be interpreted as implying that women and ethnic minorities are inferior may have more to do with a culture of conformity and punishing those that don't conform?

As tacky as comparisons to nazi Germany may be, the vast majority of Germans didn't speak up about the horrors of concentration camps (of which there were about 20 in Germany alone) even when they were located in the same town simply out of the fear of repercussions for doing so. This is additionally supported by you referring to anyone with reservations against programs like this as "alt-right tools, incels, and insecure trolls" and suggest that at your job you really do have a culture where being critical of something pushed by the ruling orthodoxy is in itself a punishable.

I also see the program is still set up with the idea that the U.S is the only country that really matters as the only ethnic minority applicants that can apply are Americans. Apparently they seem to be think that American ethnic minorities are welcome, but if you're black living in Africa, Asian living in the less well off parts of Asia or a Latino living in South America you can sod off because your contribution is just not not of any value.

Let me get this straight. You guys hate Outreachy because it favors females. Correct? Do you guys have mothers, sisters, girlfriends, or wives? Would you not be happy if some company favored them in particular? Or are we beyond reasoning at this stage?

I've explained to people like you over the years quite a few times why people have reservations with programs like this, but it really hasn't stopped the "Oh you just hate women/minorities" straw man you're using being the go-to response to any kind of reservations towards programs like this.

The fundamental issue people have with these programs is that just their existence implies that the targeted groups need this and cannot compete against everyone else on their own merits. One pretty common way of describing the thinking behind these kinds of programs is called "The racism of low expectations" where the thinking is that the targeted groups are incapable competing on a fair playing field and thus genuinely need similar systems to be set up as existed for white people in the U.S during the era of Jim Crow laws.

Another complaint people have towards these kinds of programs is that they may actually end up doing more harm than good, both trough giving the people they're supposed to help the impression the industry thinks they're genuinely inferior compared to everyone else and everyone else the impression that these people are incompetent.

In short; The reservations people have with programs like these is that they, even at the concept level, contain some very racist and sexist ideas and may very well instead work against the stated goals of the programs.

If you want an example of a program like this that the kinds of people who have reservations with these kinds of programs don't have any major issues look at what Twitter at least used to do. What they did was they gave additional resources to finding minority applicants, but once they had found them they still expected them to be just as capable of doing their job as everyone else they were trying to recruit. Unfortunately I think this program is now defunct after the person in charge of it left because he didn't agree with the expectation that the applicants he found were just as capable as any other applicant.