GNOME Software 3.30 Will Automatically Update Flatpaks By Default

[nanonyme]

Sounds like a totally fine default to me especially since it's configurable

[oiaohm]

Or just use portable apps. Place on removeable media, copy around, plug it and use it (or copy to local storage).

Don't even need internet access on every machine.

Enterprise you don't do that if you can avoid it because removable media has habit of getting damaged. Central network managed deployments are more dependable than USB keys or dvds. There are a lot of business laptops where the USB ports and dvd drives are broken due to miss handling. Please note central network managed does not always mean internet access.

Your idea only works with a small number of machines once you get up on volume the partly broken ones that cpu/ram/harddrive still works really ruins your day. Work around like using remove able media start coming hard at 20 machines gets impossible at 100+.

There is a practical limitations that causes you to target network management of software you can try to resist it but you will run out of hours in the day working around the broken machines and tracking down users with the broken machines so in large enterprise it comes a impossible task to avoid network management of software.

Please stop being so clueless Weasel.

[ZeroPointEnergy]

Sometimes you need the newest version of something while keeping the oldest version of something work. Gentoo still suffers from dependency hell where if you have 1 application needing an old version of a library and another version needing a new version your are stuck.

No, that isn't actually a problem. Gentoo already solved that with slots ages ago. Multiple major versions of a library can be installed simultaneously.

[oiaohm]

No, that isn't actually a problem. Gentoo already solved that with slots ages ago. Multiple major versions of a library can be installed simultaneously.

In Gentoo run into libraries using shared data trouble. The way Nix builds avoids this as well. Slots deals with the ABI problem does not deal with other issues where X library looks up Y file in shared and expects it to be X libraries format and never version of X library has some format change in that file Y.

Nix and zeroinstall build of libraries in fact handles that share data problem. So gentoo slots is a good start but it does not solve all the library dependency hell problems.

The reality is gentoo solved with slots about 2/3 of the problem 1/3 of the dependency hell problem is still there yet those push gentoo think the problem is fixed when it not completely solved more work is required to completely solve it.

By the way the shared is only one half of the problem.

https://meetings-archive.debian.net/pub/debian-meetings/2018/DebConf18/2018-08-02/segregated-dynamic-linking-keeping-the-p.webm

Its the reality that you cannot remap old application into using new libraries in places that have dependencies on newer run-time. This is also what brings you down into security nightmare.

So there is a new version of openssl needing a new version of glibc to function right you cannot put this into a old application not without the segregated dynamic linking work.

Think gentoo has you running those programs using old defective libraries without a sandbox and without effective method to make old ABI/API using applications use updated libraries so the job is no where near done.

[Weasel]

Enterprise you don't do that if you can avoid it because removable media has habit of getting damaged. Central network managed deployments are more dependable than USB keys or dvds. There are a lot of business laptops where the USB ports and dvd drives are broken due to miss handling. Please note central network managed does not always mean internet access.

I'm not sure what part of "copy it around" you don't understand? What stops you from buying 100 USB sticks and filling them with the same data, again? Don't tell me it's such a huge cost for "enterprise" stuff.

Or maybe get a M-DISC and it will never break if properly handled. But of course this should be mostly for software that is supposed to be frozen in time (since writing it is more tedious than a fast USB stick) for reproducibility purposes, which happens all the time in enterprise situations.

Your arguments are just weak.

Your idea only works with a small number of machines once you get up on volume the partly broken ones that cpu/ram/harddrive still works really ruins your day. Work around like using remove able media start coming hard at 20 machines gets impossible at 100+.

There is a practical limitations that causes you to target network management of software you can try to resist it but you will run out of hours in the day working around the broken machines and tracking down users with the broken machines so in large enterprise it comes a impossible task to avoid network management of software.

Yeah, or get a 404 error when trying to update packages because their servers are down or something (or just a bug!). Sounds like a better plan indeed, relying on someone else especially when you need it most.

Single point of failure.

[ssokolow]

I'm not sure what part of "copy it around" you don't understand? What stops you from buying 100 USB sticks and filling them with the same data, again? Don't tell me it's such a huge cost for "enterprise" stuff.

Or maybe get a M-DISC and it will never break if properly handled. But of course this should be mostly for software that is supposed to be frozen in time (since writing it is more tedious than a fast USB stick) for reproducibility purposes, which happens all the time in enterprise situations.

Your arguments are just weak.

No, you missed his point. He was talking about laptops where the USB ports and DVD drives required to access your 100 USB sticks or M-Discs are broken but the laptops still function well enough to be useful to the company otherwise.

Yeah, or get a 404 error when trying to update packages because their servers are down or something (or just a bug!). Sounds like a better plan indeed, relying on someone else especially when you need it most.

Single point of failure.

Again, the context being described was in enterprise, where they'd be running their own internal package repository. (Heck, I do that to supply VMs that experience a lot of churn and I know next to nothing about how APT actually works.)

[Weasel]

No, you missed his point. He was talking about laptops where the USB ports and DVD drives required to access your 100 USB sticks or M-Discs are broken but the laptops still function well enough to be useful to the company otherwise.

Yeah, I had missed the laptop part, though I still find it ridiculous that the USB port would be broken. To me such a laptop would literally be unusable.

[ssokolow]

Yeah, I had missed the laptop part, though I still find it ridiculous that the USB port would be broken. To me such a laptop would literally be unusable.

I'd expect it'd only be seen as cost-effective at the enterprise level for companies that already happened to have PXE-based device-provisioning workflows in place, but you do have to remember that devices like the Kensington FloppyLock (Tagline: Stop Data Theft!) used to be popular enough to be available from multiple companies. It could easily be a good thing for some companies.

[oiaohm]

Yeah, I had missed the laptop part, though I still find it ridiculous that the USB port would be broken. To me such a laptop would literally be unusable.

Not worked in high security enterprise. I have seen the USB ports and dvd rom drive either super-glued shut/filled or physically removed and replaced with blanks. This does stop people from picking up random discs and USB keys and plugin them into laptops.

You have dvd rom drivers and usb ports broken in laptops by miss handling and in high security devices intentionally broken/blocked.

Yeah, or get a 404 error when trying to update packages because their servers are down or something (or just a bug!). Sounds like a better plan indeed, relying on someone else especially when you need it most.

Enterprise the repository server is your companies server/ servers. Most Linux distributions update system setup by enterprise you are using DNS resolve to find way to a http/https server so you can declare mutli IP address under the same DNS A record and the client machines will use what ever server is up. Yes you can safely rsync Linux distribution repositories between servers.

https://docs.microsoft.com/de-de/security-updates/windowsupdateservices/18127657#multiple-wsus-servers-medium-sized-or-more-complex-network

Be it windows by it Linux once you get into enterprise the update processes start looking all the same. Please note Microsoft define of medium is 20 machines plus.

Microsoft with WSUS has a few more quirks due to being more complex system. But the layout of Linux and Windows systems in enterprise look very much like each other. Windows admins will be referring WSUS servers, Linux admins will be referencing setting up repositories but the end result is basically the same network traffic pattern and usage. Updates get download to enterprise private repository/wsus server then from enterprise private repository/wsus server to clients. Of course administrator gets to choose when and what packages get either installed in the private repository or deployed to client by wsus.

Basic is a single repository server be this enterprise Linux distribution private repository or wsus if this server goes down your Linux/Windows machines are not getting updates any more. Due to enterprise software most likely being put in WSUS there will not be updates to that stuff either. Due to lower license cost asking CEO to run extra servers for business only software on Linux systems is lot more likely to fly than having to ask for more Windows servers requiring more CALs.

I do hate with Windows WSUS how you have to run a WSUS server to download the updates for network segment with no internet connectivity.

https://www.linux.com/learn/create-your-own-local-apt-repository-avoid-dependency-hell

Fun part is you can place most Linux distribution repositories on any thing that has a file system Linux supports. I have seen linux systems using a repository hosted on windows file sharing on a Windows server because company policy said all updates had to be provided by the assigned update servers.

I'd expect it'd only be seen as cost-effective at the enterprise level for companies that already happened to have PXE-based device-provisioning workflows in place, but you do have to remember that devices like the Kensington FloppyLock (Tagline: Stop Data Theft!) used to be popular enough to be available from multiple companies. It could easily be a good thing for some companies.

https://www.kensington.com/us/us/7334/k67913ww/usb-port-lock-with-blockers

Kensington still makes them and makes USB ones as well on demard. https://www.kensington.com/us/us/733...-with-blockers

Reality is superglue filling the ports or removing them is cheaper and inserting blank plate. Some laptops when you open them you will see all the USB ports are on a dis-connectable board and most of those makers will sell you blanking plates for the dvd/bluray drive and the usb ports so you just take all those parts out. Floppy drives did not superglue well.

PXE based device provisioning works out simpler than having the issue of scratched discs or that USB port that is unstable that drops out half way though a windows install that appears to work perfectly to the end user once the system is setup. Once you get 20 machine plus it just simpler to get rid of removable media as a software management idea.

Weasel fun part some companies like Dell will allow you to order particular models of laptops without USB or dvd/bluray drives even that those models normally ship with those as enterprise customer. So Weasel would have called some pure brand new fully functional to enterprise business standard laptops unusable.

Weasel there is a clear line between what enterprise and home class as acceptable. Enterprise has no problem setting up servers for business data sharing so USB ports and dvd/bluray drives on every machine is not required. Once you start working in that environment the only thing you can be sure to have is some of intranet connectivity. Please note that intranet not internet you may or may not have internet access. You learn how to perform tasks using the intranet.