One Of LLVM's Top Contributors Quits Development Over CoC, Outreach Program

[-MacNuke-]

Did they learn nothing from the FreeBSD fiasco?

Fun fact: There was no "fiasco"... A handful of people left... a handful of people came (back)... The rest was irrelevant bullshit on social media.

[stormcrow]

[citation needed]

What citation is needed?

How about Linus Torvalds cussing out people on the LKML? Just a small list here:

https://adtmag.com/blogs/dev-watch/2014/04/linus-torvalds-rants.aspx

Theo de Raadt likewise going off on rants about new technologies and passing off his opinions as facts or just being generally abusive:

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Theo_de_Raadt

How about this advertisement from an ostensibly technical server hosting company:

https://web.archive.org/web/20110209160838/http://img341.imageshack.us/i/qsoladvertisementps2.jpg


Shall I go on? There's no end to this kind of thing in the technology sector. There's plenty of this going on behind the scenes in technology companies that never gets to see the light of day. And none of this is needed to get the job done. What's so hard about "Yes you can do it that way, but consider this way: <code added>" and then adding a technical explanations of the merits, instead of "Did you even bother reading what you wrote? This sucks, do it like this instead: <code added>" I know which one I'm more likely to thoughtfully consider.

[mudig]

It's always amusing to see people in tech and elsewhere go into full retard mode when this topic comes up (easily detectable by rants against "SJWs"), they just don't see the problem outside their bubble. As if "true meritocracies" exist and everyone is equal in tech. But then again, if computers are a big part of your life, it's because you like them better than people and therefore tend to have an underdeveloped view on social matters.

[dkasak]

Sounds like the community will be better off without him. Being a good dev, or making lots of commits, is not all that's involved in a community project. If someone is a jackass who is openly hostile to people based on their sex, religion, etc, then the jackass leaving is in everyone else's best interests. He's probably one of these guys complaining about 'reverse rape' or whatever because he can't find someone willing to sleep with him.

[willmore]

What am I missing here?

What is oppressive about this Code of Conduct?

https://llvm.org/docs/CodeOfConduct.html

It's a very long list of anti-descriminatory behavior policies, between adults, to act and respect people, across all ethnicities, genders, social, political and economical strata.

Please stop.

[mastermind]

No one is irreplaceable.

Hello Mr. Stalin.

[mastermind]

SJWs / cultural Marxist totalitarians destroy everything Sad to see the LLVM project fall prey to this plague.

[muncrief]

Well, it's difficult for White Nationalists to work with the same people they wish to oppress or eliminate.

Nevertheless it seems the LLVM group did everything it could to accommodate this lost soul, which is much to their credit. Evidently this contributor wanted to openly express his vile and threatening beliefs to others in a work environment though, which simply cannot be allowed. Outside of work people are of course free to be as horrible, and advocate as much horror, as they wish. But they can't run around threatening other people with dreams of resurrecting the horrors of the 1930s at their place of employment.

[Terrablit]

The nightmare in all of these discussions isn't usually the code of conduct itself. Nor is it usually the free speech ideals. It's all the asshats who stand on either side of an ideological divide and insist that those on the other side are evil or stupid just by association.

In a positive community based on free speech, the majority of communication is pleasant and amenable. But because there's not a rule against behavior and there are no consequences, someone will always come in to abuse it. Similarly, in a community policed by a code of conduct, the majority of communication is pleasant and amenable. But because the rules allow one to be offended about literally anything without any personal responsibility or reasonable limitation, someone will always come in to abuse it.

Both of these examples of abusive behaviors are perpetuated by people of all types and in all groups who are infatuated with power and their relationship to it. They're the same type of people who abuse servers at restaurants, or stride into Walmart screeching for a manager. That behavior is a mental and societal deficiency that still isn't understood well enough to treat it. Much less identify it in advance.

We'd all do a lot better if we stopped making our stance based on the belief that people who agree with us will only do the right thing. There's a loophole in everything. Free speech advocates should discuss how to deal with people who abuse others with that speech. CoC advocates should actually start including rules about how to deal with brigading and people who abuse the rules for personal reasons, and introduce protections for peaceful ideological dissent.

Acknowledge the loopholes exist and plug them. Don't just claim that no one reasonable could disagree. The entire reason this idiotic flamewar exists is because of unreasonable people. Writing your rules for reasonable people is a waste of time and is honestly just masturbatory bike-shedding. It's just codifying your ideal world and patting yourself on the back because of course their aren't any real people in an ideal world. And reason is hardly sacrosanct in internet arguments in the first place. If you're arguing, it's about emotions.

Finally, people on both sides should start calling out the extremists instead of letting them gain protection for abusive behavior by association. When you leave it to the opposing side to root them out, you undermine your position.

[muncrief]

Acknowledge the loopholes exist and plug them. Don't just claim that no one reasonable could disagree. The entire reason this idiotic flamewar exists is because of unreasonable people. Writing your rules for reasonable people is a waste of time and is honestly just masturbatory bike-shedding. It's just codifying your ideal world and patting yourself on the back because of course their aren't any real people in an ideal world. And reason is hardly sacrosanct in internet arguments in the first place. If you're arguing, it's about emotions.

Finally, people on both sides should start calling out the extremists instead of letting them gain protection for abusive behavior by association. When you leave it to the opposing side to root them out, you undermine your position.

The reason this unfortunate problem exists is because President Trump has emboldened his White Nationalists to the point where they're marching through American streets with tiki torches shouting "They will no replace us", and openly asserting that women and men of different colors, ethnicities, and religions must be oppressed or eliminated. And they're once again taking their 1930s demands into the workplace and other areas in an all out effort to intimidate and terrorize others into bowing to their wishes and surrendering out of fear.

But since this is America, chock-full of Americans, their plan, taken right from 1930s Germany, simply isn't going to work.