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  • #31
    Originally posted by audi100quattro View Post
    I wouldn't call the additional security that the amd64 architecture offers over x86 insignificant,
    I didn't, I called insignificant the disabling of 32bit in the kernel. The additional security of 64bit comes from features that an application can use if in 64bit mode, from a malware point of view using 32bit or 64bit is the same.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
      Yes and no, depends from how you look at it.

      The 32-bit libs needed by it are placed inside its own bubble, not littering your system. That's what Flatpack does. Bundles stuff with their own dependencies inside of sandboxed environments that don't interact with the OS that much.
      That's right. But the argument was that Valve should make the Steam client 64-bit. Sure, not littering your system with 32-bit libs is a nice feature that Flatpak allows, but again: the point was that the client should be 64-bit, not that 32-bit libs shouldn't litter the system.
      Last edited by Vistaus; 04-15-2018, 11:29 AM.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Vistaus View Post
        That's right. But the argument was that Valve should make the Steam client 64-bit.
        The counter argument is that the only thing that really matters to someone that isn't just hating 32bit for sentimental reasons is littering the system with 32-bit libs, that can cause issues to the rest of the system.

        Steam client won't run faster or better on 64bit, and it will still like and require its own libs at some specific version, and it will still remain a proprietary application that should really be sandboxed. Flatpacking it remains necessary even if 64-bit. So whatever, it's fine even at 32-bit.

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        • #34
          I hadn't looked into flatpack before, or bubblewrap on which it's based. It does seem to provide some additional isolation, so I can see not turning off IA32_EMULATION completely off somewhat more palatable, but if I don't need it for anything other than gaming, why would I keep it if I'm not gaming?

          Some of the features of the Steam client like remote play/capture/streaming (if available on Linux), could very well benefit from 64-bit, and games themselves could too. But this has been and continues to be a decades-long transition.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by audi100quattro View Post
            I hadn't looked into flatpack before, or bubblewrap on which it's based. It does seem to provide some additional isolation, so I can see not turning off IA32_EMULATION completely off somewhat more palatable, but if I don't need it for anything other than gaming, why would I keep it if I'm not gaming?
            As said above, it's a "just in case" thing. If you suddenly need to test or use a 32bit application (maybe a simple tool you find on github and you compile it) and then you would need to recompile the kernel.

            That's one of the things I don't like of Gentoo, if something I install does not work then I need to waste time looking up what I compiled "wrong" and recompile it after I enable the features I disabled because "I didn't need them". For embedded-like systems (i.e. very specific usecase and it does not change) then it's fine.

            Anyway that is probably an issue for a laptop and not for a mid-to-high end PC with SSDs, for Gentoo users anyway.

            Everyone else does not usually recompile their own kernel so the point is moot.

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            • #36
              I haven't needed IA32_EMULATION in a while on a laptop, though usually something will show up in dmesg if it's needed. Stable amd64 (not ~amd64) on gentoo is a lot better now than it used to be. Having ubuntu on a laptop and gentoo on a desktop, I would say I spend around the same amount troubleshooting things on both. On ubuntu I haven't yet had a completely successful upgrade from stable version to stable version for one reason or another (something with drivers usually), on gentoo it's a large enough unmasking from unstable to stable that might introduce a slot conflict (like a qt version bump). Initial configs on gentoo are sometimes harder, but they're more stable after ward I think.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by audi100quattro View Post
                Having ubuntu on a laptop and gentoo on a desktop, I would say I spend around the same amount troubleshooting things on both. On ubuntu I haven't yet had a completely successful upgrade from stable version to stable version for one reason or another (something with drivers usually),
                That's one of the reasons I don't like Ubuntu, too much half-assed things. Can I recommend OpenSUSE instead? You can upgrade from stable versions without issues (also to the rolling release and back) and even the rolling release is low-mainteneance.

                Or even Linux Mint Debian (semi-rolling based on Debian testing)

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
                  The counter argument is that the only thing that really matters to someone that isn't just hating 32bit for sentimental reasons is littering the system with 32-bit libs, that can cause issues to the rest of the system.

                  Steam client won't run faster or better on 64bit, and it will still like and require its own libs at some specific version, and it will still remain a proprietary application that should really be sandboxed. Flatpacking it remains necessary even if 64-bit. So whatever, it's fine even at 32-bit.
                  It won't run better or faster, but it *will* save a lot of space without all those 32-bit libs.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Vistaus View Post
                    It won't run better or faster, but it *will* save a lot of space without all those 32-bit libs.
                    Are you confusing the multi-GB "ubuntu chroot" Steam uses to run games (doing more harm than good, and containing both 32 and 64 bit) with a few hundred MB at most for the 32bit libs needed by the launcher?

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
                      That's one of the reasons I don't like Ubuntu, too much half-assed things. Can I recommend OpenSUSE instead? You can upgrade from stable versions without issues (also to the rolling release and back) and even the rolling release is low-mainteneance.

                      Or even Linux Mint Debian (semi-rolling based on Debian testing)
                      Ubuntu LTS releases aren't bad at all. I really only trust the security of Ubuntu/Debian, Slax, Gentoo and Fedora/Redhat. Others are mostly no goes for me.

                      OpenSUSE is the distro that had reiser and now brtfs from Evil corp as the default.. and a board member who actually defended James Damore (and his "polished memo") for an hour: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YzBBEyLZd4 (https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Board) no thanks. It's America, if it isn't free speech yet, it's about to be.

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