The CSD Initiative Is Pushing For Apps To Abandon Title Bars In Favor Of Header Bars

[linuxgeex]

GNOME 3 is a brain-damaged attempt to be LESS THAN the MacOS desktop. That is why it is the most useless desktop ever conceived, the least productive desktop ever conceived, and to be completely fair to the GNOME project, a steaming pile of dung.

This would not be so apalling if this was GNOME 1.0. But it isn't. It's a followup to GNOME 2.0, which was a fabulously productive and consistent desktop.

Anyone ever opened a GNOME 3.x file dialog and tried to edit the filename without using a mouse? How about change the path? How about select a file from the same folder? Accessibility and Human Interface Guidelines standards anyone? OMFG. Shoot them all and let Satan sort them out. When they launched GNOME 3 I thought Steve Ballmer must be their lead architect... ffs.

Having said that, it is possible to manually configure GNOME3 into a painful but usable state. Unfortunately there's no getting around their crap widget set, or their ill-conceived CSD.

If they had the IQ of a rat between the bunch of them, they would have made CSD a plugin library that can be configured on or off globally to make it interface !consistently! with the dozen other popular desktops, and ... imagine this if you will: user preference.

But what can we expect from a project based on GTK that's been struggling with a terminal diagnosis of MDI/SDI schizophrenia since it began, and now has more APIs than any sane widget library should have ever had.

[curfew]

Currently none of the Gnome CSD-enabled apps even follow the rules for how mouse buttons should work with the window title bars. In gnome-tweak-tool I've configured right-click to maximize windows VERTICALLY (only) but every CSD-enabled window will maximize in both directions, ignoring my configuration. The windows not that do not utilize CSD work as advertised. Another flaw in the CSD design is also that windows can be dragged from any place in the titlebar, including standard buttons like close or maximize. This does not work with non-CSD window borders and in my opinion that's the correct behavior.

[ssokolow]

CSD is for me nonsense, because there are so many different devices with different needs. (Besides that, they look very ugly for me in the current state). Additionally, global consistency is a must.

I would like if there would be a protocol of wayland/X11 to have one global instance which handles both "globally needed buttons/widgets" (as the ones in the header bar) and also the menu bars.
This global instance would paint them in a consistent way. Additionally, it can adopt them if there are constraints on the display. E.g. on the gemini, it could paint the header bar on the left side instead on the top, and can hide the menu by default and pop it when a button is pressed.

Just have a look at http://www.jens-wawrczeck.de/picture..._farbig_02.jpg what I mean. Yes, this was possible 20 years ago! They had already globally consistent header bars - ok, side bars *g*, which was handled by one global instance. This was globally consistent - look e.g. at http://www.jens-wawrczeck.de/epoc/Mind.gif or http://www.jens-wawrczeck.de/epoc/nFTP.gif . But it was also flexible - look at http://www.jens-wawrczeck.de/epoc/EnRoute.gif . The menu was hidden by default but was accessible everywhere by button or key press and looks like http://www.jens-wawrczeck.de/epoc/eFIXmobile.gif .
This was a very wonderful design which worked from tiny 480x160 over 640x240 to full size screens (640x480 and 800x600 these days). For e.g. 5:4/3:2 monitors the side bars could be moved up- or downwards globally, or for big devices with touch-screens as it main mouse replacement + keyboard, the menubars could be drawn downwards to minimize hand movements.

If I'm understanding you correctly, what you want is basically the KDE DWD proposal (on the sidelines while Wayland gets sorted out), but extended to also support delegating menu bars to the compositor.

[tajjada]

There once was a KDE vs GNOME cartoon, where all the GNOME developers were doing drugs and listing to electronic music, and the KDE developers were all wearing suits and sitting in a sterile office.

Supposedly both were said to be accurate representation of then Ximian and KDAB offices.

As someone who does drugs and listens to electronic music, I don't want to be associated with GNOME developers. Please don't liken them to me.

[IreMinMon]

Jesus, I thought these CSDs were about putting Firefox tabs in the titlebar and removal of these green chin bars as in pic related, while moving menus in titlebars.
Is there something I'm missing here? I'm no fan of the GNOME team but I think the issue of useless titlebars was always supposed to be addressed eventually.

[omer666]

The funny part about this thread is that people still wonder in 2018 why the year of Linux desktop hasn't come yet. With such reactions you get a better understanding of why thing's aren't going to change anytime soon. People that try to shape a better user experience get comments on how much Windows 3.1 was better and things like "I want my taskbar back"... so pathetic.

[M@yeulC]

As a CSD user I find it a pleasant experience and the inconsistent experiences across applications annoying. Which is why I simply avoid non CSD apps.

I am not sure I got that. You realize that CSD is often blamed for inconsistency, right? The basic principle being that every application can do whatever it wants to its decorations. Take steam and chrome as examples : we are not talking about gnome CSD apps (which probably uses GTK). I get that you would like every application to behave and look the same. But in my opinion, that's a job for SSD (and NOTHING prevents applications from asking the compositor to put buttons in their header bars (see DWD).

SSD - server side decorations: the compositor draws the decorations, usually they all look alike
CSD - client side decorations: applications draw their own decorations, originally introduced so that they could appear unique and introduce some branding, IIRC
DWD - dynamic window decorations, where an application politely asks the SSD compositor if it can draw some widgets in their title bar. Originally proposed for KDE, but looks like it is on the back burner for now.

Gnome should really give DWD a try, IMO.

[Gusar]

The funny part about this thread is that people still wonder in 2018 why the year of Linux desktop hasn't come yet. With such reactions you get a better understanding of why thing's aren't going to change anytime soon. People that try to shape a better user experience get comments on how much Windows 3.1 was better and things like "I want my taskbar back"... so pathetic.

They may be trying to shape a better user experience, but there's no consensus that they're actually succeeding. I do not think headerbars are a better user experience, and going by the comments in this thread, I am far from alone in that thinking. That's the issue in your argumentation, you're equating "different" with "better". But something being different does not automatically make it better

[mifritscher]

@ssokolow: Jep :-) DWD is, in my oppinion, the way to go.

[slacka]

Is it because folks only have the horrible 16:9 vision-slits and not enough room between the borders for the actual content?

And why do so many programs features such tiny tiny scollbars? Or ribbon design in MS products, anyone? Crippled desktop search?

This is what I don't get. Every laptop in my office is a 16:9. Ditto for last time I went to Best Buy, and yet here we are with both GNOME pushing big fat horizontal header bars and MS pushing their big fat horizontal ribbon. I don't get it. Are these UX designers rocking 4:3 screens or they just not think about how people use computers?

Unity is the only desktop that got this right with their global menus and left task bar. That's why I'm on Unity today and why KDE is the only other DE I would consider switching to.