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X.Org Server Systemd Integration Proposed

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  • #21
    Originally posted by rudregues View Post
    Good but not enough, I want:
    - OSS, alsa and pulseaudio systemd integration
    - X11, Wayland and Mir systemd integration
    - KDE, Gnome, XFCE, E19, Mate, LXDE and Unity systemd integration
    - More systemd integration in the kernel (better if systemd makes part of it)
    - OpenRC, Sysvinit and Upstart systemd integration
    - Steam OS and Valve games systemd integration
    - gmail systemd integration
    - polkit, consolekit, PAM, dbus, udev and eudev systemd integration
    - systemd as default requirement for any GNU/Linux (this case user must use systemd) and optional for GNU/Hurd and *BSD (this case the user can choose between using or not)
    - Raspberry Pi support

    Well, let's do some feature request in bugzilla!!!
    Systemd is all good!!! It's better than Linus projects (I think people call it "Linux").
    I know you are being ironic, but half of what you propose are actually great ideas. PulseAudio socket activation and with permissions conferred by cgroups instead of what's being done now would be amazing. KDE is a great desktop to try systemd integration. If you add socket activation to X, Steam + systemd user mode could be amazing. And Wayland already has systemd integration, AFAIK.

    Lennart, are you listening?

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    • #22
      Originally posted by bkor View Post
      systemd already has a PAM module. This support is to allow running xorg not as root.
      Could you give me a link to a how to? Or an example how to use it the right way.

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      • #23
        Originally posted by dragonn View Post
        Does this mean that I will can start X.Org to my user desktop from systemd directly? Without using any login manager or xorg-launcher-helper and etc like that? That would be amazing.
        Well, you could... but then, you could already set up your desktop to boot to X without a login, if you wanted. It's not like GDM or other login managers start X - they're X-based apps themselves.

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        • #24
          Originally posted by who_me View Post
          Oh wait, the effin' thing already has one:

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xprint
          That's different. This integration is for making X do *less*, and so increasing security.

          Originally posted by dragonn View Post
          Could you give me a link to a how to? Or an example how to use it the right way.
          The systemd PAM module or launching X as non-root?

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          • #25
            Originally posted by Delgarde View Post
            It's not like GDM or other login managers start X - they're X-based apps themselves.
            No they're not ... the Display Manger starts the Display server (hence the reason why they are called a "DM") ... once the display server starts (typically X) then the pretty little graphical greeter for the DM comes up ... then you can log into whatever DE (that supports the Display Server the DM started), as whomever .... (if you haven't configured autologin)
            Last edited by Tyler_K; 27 January 2014, 05:18 PM.

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            • #26
              I know this wasn't serious, but still:
              Originally posted by rudregues View Post
              - OSS, alsa and pulseaudio systemd integration
              OSS and alsa is useless, but pulseaudio could work.
              - X11, Wayland and Mir systemd integration
              This thread is about X11, Wayland already has, Mir will never have as Ubuntu doesn't use systemd.
              - KDE, Gnome, XFCE, E19, Mate, LXDE and Unity systemd integration
              AFAIK Gnome and XFCE already have. Maybe more of the list have, too, or will have in the near future. Unity not (again: Ubuntu).
              - More systemd integration in the kernel (better if systemd makes part of it)
              Actually it's the other way around: Systemd uses Linux only kernel interfaces.
              - OpenRC, Sysvinit and Upstart systemd integration
              That doesn't make any sense at all. Why should one init system depend on another?
              - Steam OS and Valve games systemd integration
              SteamOS ok, it's just a Linux distribution. But Games itself? What benefit should that give?
              - gmail systemd integration
              That's just plain trolling, no?
              - polkit, consolekit, PAM, dbus, udev and eudev systemd integration
              All there except eudev as eudev was forked from udev to not have systemd integration.
              - systemd as default requirement for any GNU/Linux (this case user must use systemd) and optional for GNU/Hurd and *BSD (this case the user can choose between using or not)
              Systemd uses Linux only kernel interfaces...
              - Raspberry Pi support
              Not sure about that, but what stops systemd from running on a Raspberry Pi?

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              • #27
                Originally posted by Nuc!eoN View Post
                Systemd silently taking over the ecosystem...
                Whatever shall we do if the userland becomes coherent rather than the total clusterfuck it is currently.

                Oh the tragedy.

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                • #28
                  Ok, I was being ironic criticizing systemd with my previous post... To note:

                  Debian startup is smallest, it's only shell with sysvinit (C) as dependency
                  Upstart is about 10 times bigger in terms of lines of code/text. Most of the extra complexity size comes from C.
                  OpenRC is about twice as big as debian startup. The size difference is mostly the OpenRC core written in C, which expands the footprint from ~3k LoC to ~15k LoC compared to shell.
                  systemd is about 10 times bigger, like upstart. But with the mandatory deps it blows up to about one hundred times the code footprint! Most of the extra code is in mandatory dependencies, but the systemd core is also bigger than anything else.
                  http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Talk:Com...f_init_systems

                  The problem with systemd is some invasive politics of development. It is modular just internally.

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                  • #29
                    Originally posted by TAXI View Post
                    I know this wasn't serious, but still:
                    For a given definition of "integration", yeah, a lot of those packages already do. I think Pulse uses socket activation, as will Xorg, and I think that's also the feature Wayland uses. Gnome uses logind and intends to use a lot more (adopting systemd as the session controller), and most of the other desktops named are at least considering following Gnome's path.

                    You're wrong about ConsoleKit though... that's not integrate, it's outright replaced (by logind).

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                    • #30
                      Originally posted by dragonn View Post
                      Does this mean that I will can start X.Org to my user desktop from systemd directly? Without using any login manager or xorg-launcher-helper and etc like that? That would be amazing.
                      Could well be a possibility and it's well past time for the X.Org server code base to be cleaned up of much of the old cruft that's hardly used anymore or which is so buggy that it begs for a rewrite.

                      To keep X.Org Server relevant it is a must for refactoring a lot of the code to support modern drivers and system configurations as well as providing a base for future enhancements.

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