The Synaptics Driver That Does Multi-Touch, ClickPads

[liam]

Well not totally surprised that there are still companies living up to the M standard, looked at previously mentioned Das Keyboard, but it's not a half ergo, nor does it have media keys. With the meta key on there I can technically live without media keys but I'd prefer to have them. Know of any company that does both of those with these switches?

I'm not sure what you mean by "half ergo". Do you mean a split layout?
If that is what you mean, here is what I've found:

http://www.trulyergonomic.com/store/index.php

http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/advantage.htm -- this one doesn't advertise Cherry switches, but they are mechanical and I read elsewhere that they are in fact Cherry MX

i don't think any of these use the Cherry Blue switch (basically the same switch as the Model M you have), but since they all provide positive feedback and require varying amounts of force to depress (depends on the model switch used), they are all considered excellent switches. Most of the Cherry switches are non-linear, thus once you press beyond a certain point it either pushes back harder, or collapses, and pushed back less. Additionally, most include a clicking mechanism so as to give an aural feedback.
There are probably more keyboards out there, but hopefully this is helpful.

[satisfyingcrunch]

Hi guys, i'm new to linux and i'm wondering if anyone can help me install this ? :3

Thanks

[Cyborg16]

Only problems are what I've stated above which are a result from them being a 20-30 year old design.

And the fact that they're not available on laptops, which pretty much rules them out for me.

My point was that our input devices ["have become", "are becoming"] PoS that feel utterly terrible, cause more issues along those lines, and break within a few short years.

Can't the same be said for computer monitors though? While the recent increase in popularity of IPS screens is nice, the change in form-factor to 16:9 pretty-much everywhere basically screams this screen is designed for watching films and nothing else.

About RSI though: changing the keyboard layout can help a lot, since it balances load on the fingers and avoids the need to reach a long way (which is the primary reason the layout I linked duplicates a lot of symbols on the third layer).

[Luke_Wolf]

I understand your point and don't disagree. I We obviously misunderstood one another.
Still, if you get the chance, google Cherry switches and you'll find their are lots of other quality keyboards out there.

Well not totally surprised that there are still companies living up to the M standard, looked at previously mentioned Das Keyboard, but it's not a half ergo, nor does it have media keys. With the meta key on there I can technically live without media keys but I'd prefer to have them. Know of any company that does both of those with these switches?

[liam]

Well yes repetitive strain injury and carpal tunnel is going to occur with excessive amounts of typing on anything, the full and half ergo keyboards were designed to help with the wrist issue, but the repetitive strain caused by typing issue can only be minimized by key technology while we retain the same input method. My point was that our input devices ["have become", "are becoming"] PoS that feel utterly terrible, cause more issues along those lines, and break within a few short years. Now I'm not saying the M is completely perfect in everything, I pointed out it's flaws in a previous post, however it's better than anything else I've laid hands on.

I understand your point and don't disagree. I We obviously misunderstood one another.
Still, if you get the chance, google Cherry switches and you'll find their are lots of other quality keyboards out there.

[Luke_Wolf]

Even hardwarewise there are some really great alternatives (but make sure you get the Cherry switches; if memory serves Das makes keyboards using only the higher end Cherry spring collapse switch), but the problems I mentioned still remain.
Having to make those rapid, fine movements with your fingers while contorting your wrists into position is why people get carpal tunnel.
There are some alternative input devices that help to put your wrists in a more natural position, but they are bizarre.
My point, however, is that ANY kind of keyboard is going to have the kinds of problems I mentioned in thr previous post.

Well yes repetitive strain injury and carpal tunnel is going to occur with excessive amounts of typing on anything, the full and half ergo keyboards were designed to help with the wrist issue, but the repetitive strain caused by typing issue can only be minimized by key technology while we retain the same input method. My point was that our input devices ["have become", "are becoming"] PoS that feel utterly terrible, cause more issues along those lines, and break within a few short years. Now I'm not saying the M is completely perfect in everything, I pointed out it's flaws in a previous post, however it's better than anything else I've laid hands on.

[liam]

It's called the IBM Model M.

Even hardwarewise there are some really great alternatives (but make sure you get the Cherry switches; if memory serves Das makes keyboards using only the higher end Cherry spring collapse switch), but the problems I mentioned still remain.
Having to make those rapid, fine movements with your fingers while contorting your wrists into position is why people get carpal tunnel.
There are some alternative input devices that help to put your wrists in a more natural position, but they are bizarre.
My point, however, is that ANY kind of keyboard is going to have the kinds of problems I mentioned in thr previous post.

[Luke_Wolf]

Hmm, I see. I love my thinkpad keyboard in any case. Gaming keyboards — yeah, mushy. My desktop keyboard fits that category — fine for hammering the keys when gaming but fairly horrible to type on. Never tried an IBM model M though, so maybe I'm missing out.

mhm, IBM basically set the standard for keyboards which I think is why Thinkpad keyboards remain so good even though the others fell. But yeah, if you've never tried one and you're a keyboard enthusiast it'll be a treat. Only problems are what I've stated above which are a result from them being a 20-30 year old design. I'm not kidding on the lasting forever part either. Only problem I have with my current one that's 20 years old is the minus key on the numpad is a bit tricky about actually acknowledging keypresses, otherwise everything still works (I'm going to open it up one of these days and see what the problem is).

In terms of hardware, I'm more interested in things like keyglove and chordite due to the form factor. They're never going to rival these old typewriter layouts we've been using on desktops and laptops for years, but are targetting territory with no current dominant device (other than phone keyboards).

Interesting devices, I may have to look into those.

[Cyborg16]

Hmm, I see. I love my thinkpad keyboard in any case. Gaming keyboards ? yeah, mushy. My desktop keyboard fits that category ? fine for hammering the keys when gaming but fairly horrible to type on. Never tried an IBM model M though, so maybe I'm missing out.

In terms of hardware, I'm more interested in things like keyglove and chordite due to the form factor. They're never going to rival these old typewriter layouts we've been using on desktops and laptops for years, but are targetting territory with no current dominant device (other than phone keyboards).

[Luke_Wolf]

I'm sure it's possible to do significantly better. Maybe I can self-advertise.

That's layout though, I'm talking about the actual hardware. The problems with modern keyboards comes that all their basic designs are utterly terrible. Islands don't feel good and break easily, tiles typically aren't grouved and tend to have too short of keystrokes which causes problems over time when typing. Most chiclet designs were created by sadists, and the only decent-good ones of those form I've found come from Toshiba (best of the three for chiclet), Lenovo, or Samsung. Don't even get me started on the ultra-short stroke keyboards that dominate bestbuys. Gaming periphreals in my experience tend to be especially bad with mushy keys and other annoyances.

That said there are still some okay keyboards being made even in the wake of all those terrible ones. Microsoft tends to actually make very good keyboards for the key technology they're using, and Toshiba, Lenovo (thinkpad keyboard = <3 ), and Samsung make the best laptop keyboards I've found. Business targeted keyboards also tend to be okay, although they can sometimes be bad too.

All that said though nothing in terms of actual keyboard quality matches up to the Model M, it's buckling spring technology means the keyboard feels the best of anything and it lasts forever. My only real complaints with it are lack of the Meta key and media buttons, plus maybe make it a half-ergo, and the fact I'm going to have to hack it to use USB when PS/2 ports become obsoleted on desktops. Those are all layout related design things though, which comes as a result of the keyboards being 20+ years old by this point, and says nothing against the actual keyboard quality itself which is second to none.