Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Working On The X.Org 7.6 Katamari

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #21
    Originally posted by curaga View Post
    Fairly offtopic, but sure. Do you really want a list of every distro that doesn't include python by default, and of every WM that does not need it?

    Gnome != every wm, gnome utils != a good deal of linux tools, and gnome != good deal of toolkits.

    X-Server 1.9-compatible Desktop-Setup(or even Server-Setup) - Even Slack 8 would probably work fine for that, that is no criteria really. I would bet X server 1.9 will run on any system with 2.4+ kernel and gcc 4+.
    First of all I'm more of a KDE-guy.

    Also: X-Server 1.9 may run on 2.4, but the DRM the drivers need won't. Most 1.9-drivers are KMS-only(Nouveau is also latest kernel only, thanks to their hard dependency on libdrm) and there have been a few non-mandatory DRM-Changes. I'm also not gonna comment on how that setup is completly idiotic(if you're running VESA you don't need 1.9).

    Which leaves us with setups from at least this decade - and seeing how Red Hat and AFAIK even Debian ship Python...

    Comment


    • #22
      Originally posted by RealNC View Post
      If you're claiming that 3 extra libs need 3.6 seconds then you're either falsifying the results or are using a 3MHz 8086...
      Those weren't seconds, they were multipliers.

      Originally posted by fabiank22 View Post
      First of all I'm more of a KDE-guy.

      Also: X-Server 1.9 may run on 2.4, but the DRM the drivers need won't. Most 1.9-drivers are KMS-only(Nouveau is also latest kernel only, thanks to their hard dependency on libdrm) and there have been a few non-mandatory DRM-Changes. I'm also not gonna comment on how that setup is completly idiotic(if you're running VESA you don't need 1.9).

      Which leaves us with setups from at least this decade - and seeing how Red Hat and AFAIK even Debian ship Python...
      AFAIK everything but nouveau and intel will still run on whatever DRM shipped in 2.4. But how does that matter? I was just pointing out how 1.9-level X is not tied to high versions of everything else.

      In the default install, or in the repo? Red Hat sure, IIRC rpm is partly python now (or was it yum?).

      Qt does not need python the last I checked.

      Comment


      • #23
        Originally posted by curaga View Post
        Those weren't seconds, they were multipliers.
        The question how much *time in seconds* libxcb needs to load. I claim none, which is my original point; it will not slow anything down.

        Comment


        • #24
          Originally posted by RealNC View Post
          The question how much *time in seconds* libxcb needs to load. I claim none, which is my original point; it will not slow anything down.
          Do I understand you right, in that any delay < 1 s is acceptable to you?

          Comment


          • #25
            Originally posted by curaga View Post
            Do I understand you right, in that any delay < 1 s is acceptable to you?
            No. But in this case, it's < 1 ms, not "< 1 s". If you want to refer to a "delay" that's smaller than a millisecond as "bloat" then, well, I dunno. Be my guest :P

            To me, it's virtually zero.

            Comment


            • #26
              You have failed to show that XCB acutaly requires python at runtime.. as far as I can tell it is a only a build requirement.

              It is a C library after all requiring python in something that is supposed to be lightweight and part of a base system layer would be completely against any good design philosophy especially considering it is to become the primary library used to program X11 instead of Xlib. I'm right in there with cucaraga if XCB is using python in some strange way its would be no wonder it hasn't been adopted but lets not spread false information... I bet noone in this thread has read the source to see what the python is actually doing.

              Also it shouldn't be too hard to find people in 3rd world countries wanting a lightweight system to run on ther low cost hardware Xorg should at least attempt to cater to them as well and as far as I know still does.

              Personally I still find low end systems useful ... Slitaz will boot in 16Mb from CD and If I remember right 32mb will let X11 start if that cramped space you don't want to be loading unnecessary crap.

              Comment


              • #27
                Originally posted by cb88 View Post
                Also it shouldn't be too hard to find people in 3rd world countries wanting a lightweight system to run on ther low cost hardware Xorg should at least attempt to cater to them as well and as far as I know still does.
                Low cost hardware, 3rd world countries, hmm. OLPC and the sugar platform, which is written in python, comes to mind.

                Personally I still find low end systems useful ... Slitaz will boot in 16Mb from CD and If I remember right 32mb will let X11 start if that cramped space you don't want to be loading unnecessary crap.
                Oh you are talking about old hardware junk . Yeah I have a whole lot of that to, mainly gathering dust though. But yeah I agree python has its uses but not should not be a runtime dependency of X.

                Comment


                • #28
                  Originally posted by cb88 View Post
                  You have failed to show that XCB acutaly requires python at runtime.. as far as I can tell it is a only a build requirement.
                  I never meant to imply that, but I guess I should've clarified that.

                  I use a source-based distro, thus build requirement is nearly the same to me as runtime req - it would be a huge hassle to build python and then remove it after libxcb is built.


                  As for Xorg's embedded focus, the official view is "It's good for that, thus we kill kdrive". I don't see how adding 1.5mb of libs and a python build req help in the embedded space, with an equivalent Xorg vesa setup being megs bigger than Xvesa.

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    Originally posted by curaga View Post
                    I never meant to imply that, but I guess I should've clarified that.

                    I use a source-based distro, thus build requirement is nearly the same to me as runtime req - it would be a huge hassle to build python and then remove it after libxcb is built.
                    Once again: I don't see how you manage to build anything outside of an embedded system without using python at all. I mean what are you running, IceWM on VESA without external apps?

                    Additionally, you talk about a "hassle" for you. Well, python is way easier to code, so if you want to use your time to write the same thing in C fine, but my guess is that the dev in charge had less patience

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      Originally posted by fabiank22 View Post
                      Once again: I don't see how you manage to build anything outside of an embedded system without using python at all. I mean what are you running, IceWM on VESA without external apps?
                      I run JWM on Xorg 7.5 currently, on a Radeon HD4350, using Mesa 7.8.2 and radeon 1.13.1. IOW, latest stable.

                      None of the things I run need python, in fact X 7.6 would be the first thing forcing it. The apps I run most often: opera, mplayer, abiword, sylpheed, psi, nano.

                      Additionally, you talk about a "hassle" for you. Well, python is way easier to code, so if you want to use your time to write the same thing in C fine, but my guess is that the dev in charge had less patience
                      Everyone's of course free to code in whatever they want. Everyone else if free to criticize that decision, especially if it's done in a core piece of code used by nearly everybody.

                      Comment

                      Working...
                      X