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X.Org Server Clears Out Remnants For Supporting Old Compilers

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  • #61
    Originally posted by avis View Post

    Is there a single documented case of people getting hacked due to ostensible X'org insecurity? No? Just what I thought.

    Your "In fact" (Join Date: Jan 2024, lovely), in fact is a load of inanity. Mind your words next time please.

    Outside very niche per monitor scaling and VRR, is there a single standout Wayland feature not available in Xorg which is available across all 15 or so different display servers implementing Wayland? No? Just what I thought. I mean even per monitor VRR is not implemented across all Wayland compositors.

    I get it Wayland is "new" and "shiny", but there's no need to lie about both Xorg and Wayland. Xorg is not that bad, Wayland is far from being universally good - for one thing it's extremely fragmented (would be OK if all the implementations offered the same APIs and features) and no one gives a heck about that.

    I don't understand however why any activity in regard to Xorg becomes a trigger for Wayland fans. Are you actually paying for Wayland development? No? Then is it even your business someone wants to maintain Xorg?

    Developers don't owe you just because you're so enthralled by Wayland.



    Xorg is not just about Linux. FreeBSD/OpenBSD/NetBSD and AIX also use it. Not sure about Solaris and whether it's still alive.
    The fact that there is only one documented case does not mean that many could have been hacked, this applies to any software obviously.
    The point is... if you know that a piece of software is documented to be hackable, I would use something else if I can.

    Xorg is not only a nightmare from a coding perspective, but also problematic to maintain.
    There's a reason why all the enterprise distributions that have some extra responsibility to their customers have quickly switched to wayland.​​

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    • #62
      Originally posted by woddy View Post

      The fact that there is only one documented case does not mean that many could have been hacked, this applies to any software obviously.
      The point is... if you know that a piece of software is documented to be hackable, I would use something else if I can.

      Xorg is not only a nightmare from a coding perspective, but also problematic to maintain.
      There's a reason why all the enterprise distributions that have some extra responsibility to their customers have quickly switched to wayland.​​
      Quickly? That's a joke right? It has to be....

      Meanwhile 17 years later....

      EDIT: What's up with all the revisionist history I keep seeing in this thread?
      Last edited by duby229; 20 February 2024, 06:10 PM.

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      • #63
        I'm going to post in this topic on page seven without reading a single thing and see if I say something that I bet is going to apply to something that was said in this topic.

        If there's big holes in the walls around a castle but only the king, queen, servants, and knights have been walking through them so far, that's still a vulnerability. It doesn't become a vulnerability only when an attacking army goes through them.

        If said "These holes should be fixed. They're a huge weakness in our defense." and someone responds with "Yea? Name a single time the enemy has come through these walls?", that second person would be a dumbass. Both or these people also may not be able to name a single time it happened, but it doesn't mean that it hasn't happened. A thief may have used those hole and stolen things without anybody knowing or a spy might have used those holes to bypass the guards so they wouldn't need to questioned and pretended to be part of the staff to get info before leaving through those same holes.

        Is this relevant to the topic that has come up? Probably. I don't care. I won't be checking the topic again.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Myownfriend View Post
          If there's big holes in the walls around a castle ...
          Which castle. This one? I wouldn't worry about the holes in the walls so much.

          53ac1b5fee34cd1670532e470ec2b11e--mythological-creatures-fantasy-creatures.jpg

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          • #65
            Originally posted by avis View Post

            <snip>Outside very niche per monitor scaling and VRR, is there a single standout Wayland feature not available in Xorg which is available across all 15 or so different display servers implementing Wayland? No? Just what I thought. I mean even per monitor VRR is not implemented across all Wayland compositors.
            <snip>
            Per monitor scaling is available in wayfire (compositor used with MATE's experimental wayland session) and works quite nicely. Probably lots of people have one big 4K monitor and some old smaller ones. This makes using one of them with the big monitor much easier as you can have the right scaling on both.

            There are ways to do that in x11 with xrandr (I've tested them) but they are so heavy as to not be worthwhile at least with the hardware and configuration I tested.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by duby229 View Post

              Quickly? That's a joke right? It has to be....

              Meanwhile 17 years later....

              EDIT: What's up with all the revisionist history I keep seeing in this thread?
              Quickly since it was deemed ready. As often happens with open source software, wayland was born as a personal project of an RH employee, up to a certain point the work went slowly, when it was decided that it could be a real alternative, it accelerated, with Xorg devs working on wayland.

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              • #67
                Originally posted by Volta View Post

                There's no security on Windows. If they're running Windows they're running it offline. Otherwise client accounts would be empty. Imagine basing your security on operating system where Internet Explorer is the crucial part of the core system. Normally it would be a joke, but it's sad reality.
                Have you worked at a bank? Lots of Windows there. As recently as 2019 the bank I used to work at (one of the larger banks in Canada) used a Web interface which only worked in IE (and made use of a Java applet) to query customer accounts, perform transactions, and more. Electronic training courses were served via Flash, too. All on computers running Windows 7 which had access to the wider Internet.

                That access, of course, was controlled, and there was all sorts of security-oriented software from the likes of Norton and IBM which presumably did more than just visibly slow everything down.

                We occasionally received memos warning us of phishing (and presumably there were occasional employees who were hoodwinked and fallout ensued), but as far as I know no customer account was ever drained due to someone exploiting a vulnerability of Windows on a bank computer.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by woddy View Post

                  Quickly since it was deemed ready. As often happens with open source software, wayland was born as a personal project of an RH employee, up to a certain point the work went slowly, when it was decided that it could be a real alternative, it accelerated, with Xorg devs working on wayland.
                  Except that hasn't been the limiting factor. The protocols were mostly complete a long time ago. What's been taking so long is that Wayland is too simple a protocol and as such most of what xorg is has to be reimplemented by the desktop compositor. It's asinine. And it's taken the last 13-15 years for them to do so. No Wayland compositor is as feature complete as xorg. No Wayland compositor is even as feature complete as Windows Vista's compositor ffs.... I mean.... Wayland is Soo far behind it's literally retarded....

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by woddy View Post

                    Quickly since it was deemed ready. As often happens with open source software, wayland was born as a personal project of an RH employee, up to a certain point the work went slowly, when it was decided that it could be a real alternative, it accelerated, with Xorg devs working on wayland.
                    I had a reply go to the mod queue, you'll see it eventually. It more or less said Wayland is a simple protocol, too simple. Xorg is more feature complete because of it. Wayland can't be feature complete because of it and never will be. Even MS's compositor going as far back as -Vista- is more feature complete than any Wayland compositor.

                    EDIT: Some compositor may get close to parity with the likes of Windows someday but it won't be thanks to Wayland it'll be despite it.

                    EDIT: Which brings us straight to the failure of Linux distros in the desktop marketplace... Squarely Wayland's fault. Pure and simple.
                    Last edited by duby229; 20 February 2024, 09:51 PM.

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Luke View Post

                      Per monitor scaling is available in wayfire (compositor used with MATE's experimental wayland session) and works quite nicely. Probably lots of people have one big 4K monitor and some old smaller ones. This makes using one of them with the big monitor much easier as you can have the right scaling on both.

                      There are ways to do that in x11 with xrandr (I've tested them) but they are so heavy as to not be worthwhile at least with the hardware and configuration I tested.
                      Lots of people with 2 monitors and one of them is 4K?

                      No, https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/

                      Not "lots", I think it's close to 0.01% among those who own a PC/laptop.

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