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Linux Developers To Meet Again To Work On HDR, Color Management & VRR

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  • #31
    Originally posted by cl333r View Post

    I was looking up to maybe getting an HDR monitor this year but you really killed the expectation lol, I'm into movies so maybe I'll like it.
    Its been a few years since I got mine so it may be a little better now. There's good stuff out there but you gotta look at a lot of reviews. I didn't get mine primarily for HDR, I just wanted a secondary monitor that was the same size as my primary so I only paid like $380 or something. That was maybe 4 years ago

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    • #32
      Originally posted by bug77 View Post
      I know what HDR is about. I was pointing out that if the monitor doesn't have good dimming capabilities, it's impossible to render a SDR window right next to a HDR one. The monitor will just brighten up more than it should.
      it's a little more complicated then that. but in the first place, you can't "just render SDR next to HDR" anyways since you need to actually do transfer mapping which is not a 1:1 thing anyways. Since you need to do some (inverse-)tonemapping anyways (SDR graphics white is reccomended 203 nits while sRGB is typically graded for 80nits) it's not really an issue, but a 300 nit window side by side a 200 nit window isn't going to be an issue, despite this still being "SDR beside HDR" You will always need to do tonemapping.

      You need to do tonemapping anyways because if you have a 1knit white square extremely few displays, even oled ones, will render that anyways, so that gets mapped down to their sustained peak brightness. So "Displaying SDR side by side HDR" is not an issue, regardless of dimming zones, since it's impossible to do it "correctly" anyways. You will always need to tonemap, and will always want to tonemap in the vast majority of cases where two images of different brightnesses are displayed side by side

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      • #33
        Originally posted by skeevy420 View Post
        Maybe I'm a naive optimist, but the entire Code of Conduct can be summed up into "Be nice! Be respectful! Don't be an asshole!" so I think that it's just a damn shame that the Code of Conduct has to be so long or even exist.

        I don't really want to comment on that, but it's like 40% of the page.

        20% about the actual event
        40% travel information
        40% rules around "Be nice! Be respectful! Don't be an asshole!"

        It just sucks. You know, we're living in a society! We're supposed to act in a civilized way!
        You're right, common sense and common courtesy can be summed up in a sentence or two, and of course doesn't really need to be explicitly stated in the first place. Someone who violates common courtesy does so intentionally, not out of genuine ignorance.

        When everything pervasively becomes about rules and 80-page codes of conduct to the point where the projects and events themselves almost seem to become secondary, what you are in fact dealing with is narcissists attempting to gaslight and antagonize everyone. It's about power and control, provocation, and seeing how much you can get away with.

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        • #34
          XOrg could only do VRR with 1 monitor enabled also. I could never get it working correctly with more then 1 monitor even if they others had VRR also.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by quaz0r View Post
            When everything pervasively becomes about rules and 80-page codes of conduct to the point where the projects and events themselves almost seem to become secondary, what you are in fact dealing with is narcissists attempting to gaslight and antagonize everyone. It's about power and control, provocation, and seeing how much you can get away with.
            The events become secondary to the CoC only to people like yourself and others in this thread because ya'll obsess over them. They're just trying to keep people safe and feeling welcome and then some 4channers who weren't going to participate in those projects or leave their house come screeching in going "But I'm a shithead. What if I want to harass a trans person? This CoC infringes on muh freedom"

            Edit: Removed what I said about Skeevy. My bad! I skimmed over it too quickly and interpreted it completely incorrectly! You can still see what I said in Luke's quote but I definitely read it wrong. Sorry, Skeevy!
            Last edited by Myownfriend; 19 February 2024, 12:55 AM.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by theriddick View Post
              XOrg could only do VRR with 1 monitor enabled also. I could never get it working correctly with more then 1 monitor even if they others had VRR also.
              I could only imagine how bad the tearing would be with VRR on a multiple monitor setup in Xorg. I really don't understand how there are people who would don't just hate Wayland but defend X11 like it's holding up really well.

              One of these days I really want to sit one of my friends down in front of a Linux install and see if they have the same reaction to Xorg that I did when I first started using Linux.

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              • #37
                cringe as usual forum today

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Eirikr1848 View Post
                  This is great to see, as someone who has derped unmagestically with modifying display settings on Linux compared to the ease of using tools like Custom Resolution Utility (CRU) on Windows. (Windows has easy GUI monitor hacking tools?! What?!

                  While we hopefully get improved integrated solutions from these hackfests soon for X & Wayland once the nuances of CoCs are figured out…. here’s what a homie’s gotta do for now. Pardon the formatting

                  1. List Displays: Use xrandr to identify ports.
                  2. Backup EDID: (Gotta always backup yo!)
                  3. Extract EDID: Tools like get-edid or nvidia-settings.
                  4. Install Tools: read-edid, xxd, hexedit, etc. 5. Edit EDID File: Hex edit ye olde .bin file.
                  6. Validate EDID: Check for errors.
                  7. Load EDID: Copy to /lib/firmware/edid/ and update bootloader.
                  8. Update Bootloader: Apply new kernel parameter.
                  9. Restart and Test: Verify changes took effect of course. Have a plan to revert if failed (using sed for example).

                  Additional steps are probably needed for Nvidia GPUs with nvidia-settings and nvidia-xconfig.

                  Use case: some desktop and laptop 60Hz TN panels seem to OC to 65Hz - 75Hz easily with a VRR range to match. Some IPS seem to have panels range 62Hz-70Hz.

                  tinkering with the color range and a colorimeter has been fun also


                  There's a bug report/feature request in KDE for doing this on Wayland.

                  On X11, you can use xrandr, without any EDID dumping and rebooting nonsense.​

                  Edit: And Sway apparently also supports custom modes, with output <name> modeline <parameters>. I don't use Sway, but docs suggest you should be able to try out modes without restarting using swaymsg.
                  Last edited by yump; 19 February 2024, 10:37 AM.

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                  • #39
                    HDR has many obstacles that need to be addressed, not all can be addressed by software developers though.

                    First you need an internal color space that is a superset of all color spaces you want to support. And this alone is an imperfect decision because there is no perfect color space to use. Oklab is probably one of the best in terms of color accuracy but it can not account for viewing conditions (dark vs. bright room) and is only optimized for D65 white point.
                    Then you need to clip or map the different color spaces to what the display supports and we have no idea which display has which limits. Only calibrated displays can get good tone mapping.
                    Most modern HDR displays will do the necessary mappings themselves when feed with REC2020 and HDR metadata but like sRGB, quality highly depends on that implementation.

                    HDR material (movies) will typically get mastered with 1000 nits or higher and mapping that down to less nits will result in blown out details. With games you could do a much more flexible approach, if you know the characteristics of the display.

                    So what is a good HDR display? Probably one that can display 1000 nits peak while having a good contrast (3000:1 or more) and most oled monitors can't even get to 1000 nits peak, while other technologies have problems with high contrast (or more accurate with low black level).

                    When you look at Microsofts HDR implementation it is really shit because it can't know what display properties it's working with, while Apple has equipped all their devices with P3 displays and can therefore make much better assumptions about how the result will look like.
                    And Valve has a similar (known display) situation with their steam devices but lack the proper support OS wise.

                    Hopefully we get a well designed solution that is somewhat future proof. I rather wait another 5 years then have a bad solution to the problem.

                    Originally posted by Myownfriend
                    But also fuck you for for being a piece of shit, in general.
                    It's quiet telling how those who defend cocks are also the ones that have no problems with violating it themselves.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Anux View Post
                      It's quiet telling how those who defend cocks are also the ones that have no problems with violating it themselves.
                      Fuck you, too, Anus 😏

                      *quite

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