Asahi Linux To Users: Please Stop Using X.Org

[Venemo]

the Xorg X11 server does not really need feature work, so the rate of patching does not need to be as high.

I can't tell whether this is a genuine question or trolling.

There is a lot of missing features, security concerns and there is the occasional regression every now and then. Many people on this thread already wrote a lot of those, I'm not going to repeat all of it.

[mSparks]

I can't tell whether this is a genuine question or trolling.

There is a lot of missing features, security concerns and there is the occasional regression every now and then. Many people on this thread already wrote a lot of those, I'm not going to repeat all of it.

well, there is at least one DE with the entire team saying they will never support wayland.

So probably not trolling... More like stating the obvious.
not sure why the obvious needed stating, but apparently it does.

[bple2137]

The problem with Wayland as an end-user is that you lose features and abilities for security theater. It breaks stuff to fix a potential bogeyman. After nearly a decade and a half it's hard to keep enthusiasm for Wayland.

The problem with that argument is that it's all around "me, my use-case, my hardware, so Wayland shit" again and again. I can simply throw now that for me Wayland does not remove any features needed for most desktop users at this point (me also included), and in fact it adds features that were never present and won't ever be on X11 - given that it works properly with given configuration (it does if not NVIDIA or ancient hardware). The ball can be kicked back and forth forever like that without any conclusion.

Stay on Xorg if you rely on it and that's nothing wrong. If you specifically need it on Asahi for some reason, maybe find ways to work around or fix bugs instead of expecting it to be supported? Who is forcing what actually? The post was about focusing on other areas than to overcome X specific issues by Asahi dev.

At this point it's some applications not supporting it that cause trouble (even then Xwayland is fine most of the time). As much its adoption progresses, more apps developers decide to provide proper support and it shows. Some say they will never provide it as it's not important (Ardour), some straight up say Wayland shit and refuse to plan any support or even make it broken on purpose (Wayland support in AppImages).

[osw89]

this is wrong, very wrong, old car is broken,

Having to use car analogies in a software discussion is never a good sign . I used to use GNOME(bad idea) on my laptop between 2020 and 2021 due to it's supposedly better touchscreen support and it had a bug that made it froze completely if you made the mistake of dragging an icon from the dock to the desktop area, a quite annoying but for a 2 in 1 user, I encountered it frequently and the only solution was restarting GNOME. Did this mean that GNOME was broken? No, it was buggy. A broken program doesn't achieve its main function at all just like how a broken watch doesn't show the correct time randomly for some people(maybe it does two times a day but that's beside the point). Argue semantics all you want if you want to waste your time but you won't convince me.

for instance, until very recently KDE was completely broken for me, because fullscreen apps on my tablet were forced into native orientation,

And stuff like this is coincidentally a very good example of why I look at claims that KDE is broken or otherwise unusable as hyperbole. I've been using my laptop for notetaking with xournal(fullscreen and otherwise) for quite a long time now and never had this issue(or a problem with rotation in general). Guess which DE I am using. Convincing someone who has never had a problem with X that X is broken and unusable is not a very easy task for reasons that should be obvious. Anyway if we are labeling things as broken due to issues of that severity then GTK was broken for me for over 18 years due to not having thumbnails in the filepicker. For some reason I'm sure a lot of people wouldn't call that being "broken" but who cares? If I see a bug then it is broken.

[ryao]

It can't do VRR if you have multiple monitors and not all your monitors support VRR.

It can if you use a different xscreen for each one.

[ryao]

I can't tell whether this is a genuine question or trolling.

There is a lot of missing features, security concerns and there is the occasional regression every now and then. Many people on this thread already wrote a lot of those, I'm not going to repeat all of it.

That is a very generic complaint you can say about anything, including wayland.

Most if the complaints about X11 really are just people regurgitating what they read rather than having legitimate complaints. That said, no display protocol can be everything to everyone. Having choices fir them is just like having choices for web browsers and editors. Posting propaganda advocating for less choice is just silly.

[ryao]

I wonder if you were to walk back from corporate, since it is clearly and understandably unsuitable for them, and focus on maintaining it to a degree acceptable for desktop use, how viable that might be

I do not think your premise is valid. Corporate use typically does not involve desktop environments and when it does, X11 and Wayland are both equally good. Please do not reply with fallacious reasoning about RHEL’s choices. RedHat just wants less work to do and that means picking only one protocol to support.

Alan Cooper and others are already maintaining the Xorg X11 server. My point is that no amount of maintenance will be counted as maintenance by its critics here. They will just spout nonsense about it being unmaintained.

[Frenzie]

i am surprised by the hate for Wayland in this comment section. I am a Wayland\KDE user and the only thing I miss is the possibility to screen share easily.

Funny, that's just about the only thing that actually works properly (but it didn't used to). ;P

[Nori]

I decided to try Wayland PC-Nvidia with the non-free driver of the latest KDE. The result is that it is TOTALLY unusable. The screen often flickers and sometimes the mouse leaves lines on the screen. I will not be getting an AMD graphics card because of Wayland! What if the developers want MIR2with new non-free drivers in a year?
Thank you I don't want. Xorg for me or Windows again after 10 years!

[karolherbst]

I do not think your premise is valid. Corporate use typically does not involve desktop environments and when it does, X11 and Wayland are both equally good. Please do not reply with fallacious reasoning about RHEL’s choices. RedHat just wants less work to do and that means picking only one protocol to support.

Alan Cooper and others are already maintaining the Xorg X11 server. My point is that no amount of maintenance will be counted as maintenance by its critics here. They will just spout nonsense about it being unmaintained.

you should check out Alan Coopersmith's Mastodon account: https://fosstodon.org/@alanc/with_replies

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