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Asahi Linux To Users: Please Stop Using X.Org

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  • Still what about the non-functioning night light in 2023? :-)

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    • Originally posted by rogerx View Post
      Like being forced to build your house first, then having the building inspector have you tear-down your house because the inspector doesn't like your idea.

      The ideology of nowadays git community is, submit a pull request as a substitute for reasonably talking about an idea first. One big reason I miss CVS/Subversion.
      Doesn't matter if you talk about it. I want this feature that they don't find necessary.

      I don't give a fuck if they think it's insecure (hint: it's not). You know what else is actually insecure? Running stuff as root. Let's disable it entirely!!! (that's Wayland ideology). Only allow devs to run stuff as root using signed crap!!! They control our PCs after all!!!

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      • Originally posted by qarium View Post

        outside of apple there is exactly 1 product: https://german.alibaba.com/product-d...546769041.html

        its the Rockchip 3388s chip. compared to apple it is cheap. performance is not as good but still good in the ARM world
        Well, it depends on what you want to do with it. If we are talking about notebooks based on relatively low performances SoCs (mainly repurposed older smartphone or setup-box SoCs) then there are quite a few options. This one, also, Chromebooks and several Windows on ARM machines. They are OK for small tasks like web browsing, terminal emulation, basically, for the thin-client use cases. I had in mind specifically high performance SoCs, which would be capable to provide comfortable experience compiling large projects, running several docker instances etc.

        Also, personally anything below ARMv9.0-A I consider to be legacy at this point (in the context of a high performance ARM notebook I mean). I was already not too happy that M1/M2 is around 8.5/8.6, but If Apple is not going to bump M3 at least to 9.0A (implies SVE2 support), I will be a bit disappointed
        Last edited by drakonas777; 14 May 2023, 08:54 AM.

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        • Originally posted by pharmasolin View Post

          The post above is about modern hardware, not some shitty laptop from 2010s or earlier.

          If you have modern hardware there is no need for a regular user to use xorg. Those who are bitching about wayland doesn't support feature 'X' are just a 1% userbase who need this feature. Wayland will evolve there as well, but in some time. And in this case OK, use Xorg, no problem with that.

          Main point here: do not expect anything if you use Xorg, it's abandoned.
          Right, only 1% of users use screen share with Zoom. The same 1% need color calibration. The same 1% need a login manager (the official KDE login manager, SDDM, hasn't got any Wayland capable releases). The same 1% bought Nvidia hardware. Just a very vocal minority of shitheads. How convenient.

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          • Originally posted by caligula View Post

            Right, only 1% of users use screen share with Zoom. The same 1% need color calibration. The same 1% need a login manager (the official KDE login manager, SDDM, hasn't got any Wayland capable releases). The same 1% bought Nvidia hardware. Just a very vocal minority of shitheads. How convenient.
            the funny thing is.
            Your numbers are pretty much perfectly accurate if we are talking "wayland users".
            Where things get contentious is when the wayland devs start pretending that is everyone everywhere all the time.

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            • Originally posted by RejectModernity View Post

              Display server is way more complex than audio. And even pipewire took 6 years to be what it is today. And yes. Wayland is ready to replace old broken garbage that x11 is.
              You're of course correct, but the real problem is, apps like Zoom haven't implemented Wayland compatible features. For example when sharing screen, Zoom does not have the code implemented for framing the currently shared window so you get no indication of what is being shared, which is totally ass backwards. I 100% believe Wayland can do it, but Zoom cannot. Also again I am 100% certain Wayland allows developers to implement a Wayland compatible login manager, but SDDM hasn't had any releases for almost 3 years now. The old release from 2020 DOES NOT support Wayland and AFAIK it also runs as root on many systems. Another problem is SDDM does not support others things either. It claims to be a DE agnostic login manager, but if you launch Gnome 3, it can't enable power save and screen locking. So you'll run out of battery & can't lock the screen without logging off. So they should fix this shitware before advocating new tech.

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              • Originally posted by DMJC View Post

                Sure, Under Wayland the MATE panel is treated as a window,
                Sorry to hear that but I was only talking about KDE Wayland, not Wayland in general, nor did I say everyone should switch to wayland or anything, I don't really care about that.


                Originally posted by ryao View Post

                It can if you use a different xscreen for each one.
                That's a poor workaround and is what made me try wayland in the first place. Having to give up being able to move programs between screens just so that you can have VRR is less than ideal. Strictly speaking, you are right so let me correct myself: it can't do multi monitor VRR OOTB or without giving up a crucial feature that makes multi monitor usable.



                ‚Äč
                Originally posted by caligula View Post

                Right, only 1% of users use screen share with Zoom. The same 1% need color calibration. The same 1% need a login manager (the official KDE login manager, SDDM, hasn't got any Wayland capable releases). The same 1% bought Nvidia hardware. Just a very vocal minority of shitheads. How convenient.
                FWIW screen sharing on zoom works fine once you set an env variable so it doesn't arbitrarily disable it if you aren't running GNOME.

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                • Originally posted by CochainComplex View Post

                  Even if just for a second have you ever considered that those professionals at asahi Linux might be right?
                  Being right... doesn't make how they said that good.

                  Also its hysterical that they call Xorg broken garbage... because Wayland is literally built on top of the same drivers. Xorg is no more broken today than it was 10 years ago. Saying thing like that is shooting around thier own feet.
                  Last edited by cb88; 14 May 2023, 10:21 AM.

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                  • Sure I guess in the case of something very specific like Asahi Linux it might make sense to expect things to work better on a modern display server where implementing new features must be easier. Otherwise, Wayland is still not mature enough for many other use cases.


                    Originally posted by pharmasolin View Post
                    Those who are bitching about wayland doesn't support feature 'X' are just a 1% userbase who need this feature.
                    I like to think those that are developing Wayland are also part of the 1% not using the features that are required for most users in a modern desktop. Else my co-workers wouldn't all instantly switch to Xorg after installing/updating Ubuntu after noticing screen sharing isn't working or having issues with a docking station or saying they can't reload their major player desktop environment using alt-f2-r because it crashed in a weird way.

                    Originally posted by pharmasolin View Post
                    Do not expect anything if you use Xorg, it's abandoned.
                    Same for Wayland, I never expect those issues to be fixed neither.

                    Edit: removed the "ever" word from "to ever be fixed", I just don't expect it to be fixed anytime I try it, it'd just be a surprise if it is.
                    Last edited by TiCPU; 14 May 2023, 05:19 PM.

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                    • I tried wayland now for the fifth time over the last few years - it still didn't work. crash on startup / no startup.
                      Last edited by lowflyer; 14 May 2023, 11:07 AM. Reason: extended

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