X.Org Needs More People To Run For The Board

[oiaohm]

But all the Wayland kids keep saying how the X.Org project is focused on Wayland these days and that "all the developers are Wayland developers".

That the problem. But you have not understood it.

So if no-one wants to be on the X.Org board, surely that means *both* projects are looking pretty obsolete and dead?

Except there is a problem the board in control of Wayland these days is the freedesktop.org board not the X.org board.

https://www.x.org/wiki/XorgFoundation/Policies/Hosting/

You are sitting on the X.org board guess how much Hosting you in fact control. That right absolutely zero. Even the website of X.org is hosted provided with basic care by the freedesktop.org.

I would say that the X.Org board does need to ask the question if they should remain existing. X.org board basically owns no infrastructure, X.org board a bank account that almost zero.

There is worse there have been documented cases of financial miss management in the X.org board. Yes back in 2015 it was considered to allow X.org board to dissolve out of existence into SPI and leave x.org projects in freedesktop.org care over some of these cases.

So you are working on Wayland and X.org what board would you join. That right the freedesktop.org board as their votes can directly effect what infrastructure you can get access to for the development of X11 and Wayland and freedesktop.org has always has proper money management so very low risk of end up having to be in court to deal with financial miss management .

This is my problem anyone who does due diligence on the X.org board before putting there name forwards is not going to put their name forwards because X.org board reputation is garbage with total lack of resources. Yes it was known to be garbage with total lack of resources back in 2015.

kpedersen it also does not help that the reality is X.org board is useless and is basically pointless for those working on Wayland and X.org. Why would you put something forwards in the X.org board that then has to be tabled at the freedesktop.org board before anything can be done when you can sit on the freedesktop.org board and put it forwards directly. Yes if you had the choice of attending only 1 meeting instead of 2 you are going to choose to only attend one meeting again this explains what happens with developers working on x.org and wayland if they attend the freedesktop.org meetings they have everything covered. Yes the X.org board meeting comes waste of time for developers working on both Wayland and x.org.

This is one of these cases either the bullet has to be bitten with the X.org board gets killed off or someone with serous backing is able to step up provide the board and completely restructure the X.org board operation. It possible that X.org board is just too far gone and that its current day functionality nothing more than pointless duplication that is being bypassed all the time by direct freedesktop.org members.

https://xkcd.com/1598/

Yes you know something is bad when due diligence check for keeping something alive like the X.org Board starts making the above cartoon look like a practical idea.

Bring on X12. The open-source community really needs a modern display system.

https://arcan-fe.com/

That would be a12 or the true attempt to implement X12. Lets be real X.org Board does not have the money to make X12.

[Quackdoc]

https://arcan-fe.com/

That would be a12 or the true attempt to implement X12. Lets be real X.org Board does not have the money to make X12.

Arcan I am still hesitantly optimistic about I dont see wayland is a real way forward due to security over everything approach they take, and how slow it seems to take protocols to get merged. there is also ofc these issue with the still large fragmentation of the ecosystem, and even when things should work they don't (take the xdp-screen-cast.py example, it only plays a single frame on kde, and yes, it has been reported -_-). which IMO is a big pain point for me because that script is the only method you can use to get flexible cross platform recording and streaming. OBS is a no go for various reasons, and all of the other tools are either incredibly limiting, or simple target a specific platform.

and this is just one example of something that shouldn't be an issue. things like onscreen keyboards, the layers protocol STILL isn't merged so on and so forth. and ofc the solution that is supposed to be our savior, desktop portals is in the same situation, where they would rather force security instead of giving flexibility, despite them having a decent permissions system

[kpedersen]

Except there is a problem the board in control of Wayland these days is the freedesktop.org board not the X.org board.

Not quite. As per the X.Org Foundation website here.

X.Org Foundation's (or X.Org for short) purpose is to research, develop, support, organize, administrate, standardize, promote, and defend a free and open accelerated graphics stack and the developers and users thereof. This stack includes, but is not limited to, the following projects: DRM, Mesa, Wayland and the X Window System

At first Wayland was developed by one person only and it has become the new standard for the Linux desktop. So what is your excuse for writing forum posts instead of developing "the modern display system the open-source community needs"?

Since Wayland is just a protocol (and a fairly weak one at that (many things are "out of scope")), my dog could probably write the spec in an evening.

Since I also don't use Linux, I don't particularly feel a need to develop one for the Linux community. The wider open-source community still has a fully working Xorg remember.

He doesn't know how to lol

Drawing pixels on the Linux drm framebuffer isn't hard. Wayland compositors do little more than that. Basically catching up to some of the ancient DOS display systems like GEM this was solved in the 80s. What Wayland does to make them look hard is that they just needlessly duplicate each others work.

[Myownfriend]

Since Wayland is just a protocol (and a fairly bare bones one at that), my dog could probably write a spec in an evening.

Since I also don't use Linux, I don't particularly feel a need to develop one for the Linux community. The wider open-source community still has a fully working Xorg.

Nice excuse lol

Drawing pixels on the Linux drm framebuffer isn't hard. Wayland compositors do little more than that. What makes them look hard is that they just needlessly duplicate each others work.

How is this relevant? Nobody that you don't know how to write to a DRM buffer. I said that you don't know how to write a display server protocol.

[-MacNuke-]

Since I also don't use Linux, I don't particularly feel a need to develop one for the Linux community. The wider open-source community still has a fully working Xorg.

Yet, you are here and asking for X12 while doing... nothing. Nobody asked you to develop a display system only for Linux since Wayland also works on other systems. I asked you to develop "the modern display system the open-source community needs". Soo, whats your excuse?

Now you are saying it is not hard and even your dog can do it. So... why are you and your dog not working on it?

[oiaohm]

Arcan I am still hesitantly optimistic about I dont see wayland is a real way forward due to security over everything approach they take, and how slow it seems to take protocols to get merged. there is also ofc these issue with the still large fragmentation of the ecosystem, and even when things should work they don't (take the xdp-screen-cast.py example, it only plays a single frame on kde, and yes, it has been reported -_-). which IMO is a big pain point for me because that script is the only method you can use to get flexible cross platform recording and streaming. OBS is a no go for various reasons, and all of the other tools are either incredibly limiting, or simple target a specific platform.

https://invent.kde.org/plasma/xdg-desktop-portal-kde/-/issues

What issue because I have not seen a report of that.

[kpedersen]

I asked you to develop "the modern display system the open-source community needs". Soo, whats your excuse?
[...]
Now you are saying it is not hard and even your dog can do it. So... why are you and your dog not working on it?

Oh right. Yeah, just run this command and it will update you right up (if your OS of choice clearly separates packages).

# ln -s /usr/X11R6 /usr/X12R0

Now, just remove the obsolete Wayland shite from your machine and you are good to go

(You are welcome. Courtesy of my dog).

[oiaohm]

Oh right. Yeah, just run this command and it will update you right up (if your OS of choice clearly separates packages).

# ln -s /usr/X11R6 /usr/X12R0

Now, just remove the obsolete Wayland shite from your machine and you are good to go

(You are welcome. Courtesy of my dog).

https://www.x.org/wiki/Development/X12/

X12 has a formal design document so no you cannot do what you just did. X12 document contains a list of faults of X11 that need to be fixed.

[-MacNuke-]

(You are welcome. Courtesy of my dog).

Maybe your dog really knows more about this stuff than you.

[Quackdoc]

https://invent.kde.org/plasma/xdg-desktop-portal-kde/-/issues

What issue because I have not seen a report of that.

wait there is a different tracker? I reported this to KDE's abysmal bugs.kde.org. ill look into reporting it there thanks. it was a while ago I reported it. and I lost accsess to that account, but the name was something along the lines of "xdp-screen-cast.py frozen video"