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Linux Patch Sparks Differing Views Over External Monitor Handling With iGPU vs. dGPU

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  • #41
    DRanged Thanks for the advice, I would try debian testing next time.

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    • #42
      Originally posted by birdie View Post

      Have you read the issue? It's not about API, it's about a drastic change in behavior.
      I read the patch https://patchwork.freedesktop.org/patch/488499/ , it changes the behavior of API remove_conflicting_framebuffers by calling sysfb_disable on certain situation, which is a change in API.

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      • #43
        Originally posted by user1 View Post

        Except in my case, the pain was not installing, but finding out that winehq-stable is not even available in the repo after I already added it. The fact that it's not available wasn't even mentioned in the Fedora installation page in winehq website.
        That sounds aweful, they should at least update the doc.

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        • #44
          Originally posted by Danny3 View Post
          for it to be able to make a copy of everything that is displayed?
          And do what with them?
          Originally posted by Danny3 View Post
          I wonder if...already has all the spyware and networking capabilities to send the images home.
          Ah, so informed by the voices in your head.

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          • #45
            Anyway we offtopic too much.

            I think change should be at least optional, because:
            a) copying framebuffers isn't that totally free,
            b) there are legitimate use cases that do benefit from that (G.A.M.E.R.S WHY NO ONE TALKS ABOUT GAMES?)

            Is this for systems with dual Intel GPUs? I ask because if this affects
            Intel/Nvidia hybrid systems then this is a huge no from me. Nouveau is able to
            support these systems, but at a limited capacity. This would imply that we are
            making external displays work for users of the nvidia proprietary driver, at
            the expense making external display support for mainline kernel users
            substantially worse for people who are using the mainline kernel. Which isn't
            a choice we should be making, because nvidia's OOT driver is not a mainline
            kernel driver.

            If this is just for Intel/Intel systems though that's probably fine, and it
            might also be fine for AMD systems.
            I hate such aproach. First there are such double Intel/double AMD systems and nothing stops from making Intel/AMD dual GPU system. Only Nvidia however cared enough to have display wired directly (in laptop) wired up to display because it was faster, lower latency and in general makes more sense (eg. if you use extrernal monitors, you are likely using power brick as well). Again linux philosophy dominates over making system actually good for users. Which is basically saying I don't care about making system used by milions of users i care that it is done way i want.

            Also karolherbst I am not certain, but doesn't it only apply towards MUX-ed scenarios?

            In laptops there are 2 configurations:
            -MUX-less when everything is wired to iGPU,
            -MUX-ed when display is routed either to dGPU or iGPU and can be switched.

            If we talk only about 2nd) case is most of time only happening if Laptop supports stuff like Gsync/freesync or such beast workstations, and I believe we don't talk here about average dell XPS (They are muxless), seriously i don't know a single laptop with nvidia mx150-450 or GTX/RTX XX50 (or below) that uses MUX-ed case. This is why i don't think issue raised is actually serious. 90% of internal/external displays in laptops are wired to iGPU and seriously i only know from news that few such cases exist but there were all insane configurations like RTX 2080 in laptop.

            The patch for me (if i understand stuff right):
            - in muxless case (90%+ of all laptops with nvidia gpu), things work as they did before,
            - in mux-ed case (few unusual configurations with ultra powerful components) in this case behaviour does change,
            - while case from patch is when external display is not supported at all because it is wired only to dGPU.

            Overall? I think good patch because most mux-ed cases will be using dGPU anyway.
            Last edited by piotrj3; 17 August 2022, 12:02 PM.

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            • #46
              Originally posted by user1 View Post

              That "we are volunteers, therefore we have the right to break your stuff" argument really makes my blood boil. I recently heard the same argument about future GTK versions and GTK 4 text rendering from Gnome devs. As a user of your software, I don't give an f. I want everything to work properly and I don't care what it takes to fix something.
              The "volunteers" argument is the only way to answer this type of entitlement I see in your comment.

              See, when you use other people's work for free, without contributing code or money, you're not a user. You're a freeloader. And freeloaders may ask nicely, but never get to complain.

              Edit: It's seems I need to clarify that my comment is directed at the loud entitled Karens of Linux community.
              Last edited by Vermilion; 18 August 2022, 01:21 PM.

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              • #47
                Originally posted by Vermilion View Post

                The "volunteers" argument is the only way to answer this type of entitlement I see in your comment.

                See, when you use other people's work for free, without contributing code or money, you're not a user. You're a freeloader. And freeloaders may ask nicely, but never get to complain.
                So by your logic, if I report a bug because something is broken/not working properly, I'm still a freeloader?
                You know, as I already said, in some cases devs can be arrogant, similar to the case of GTK 4 font rendering, when the Gnome dev was initially in denial mode and insisted that it's not a bug. After some pressure from users, his mind was changed a bit, so he created a configuration line that improved the rendering of GTK 4 fonts. It seems user pressure is the only way to make such devs change their mind and in that particular case he was actually proven wrong.
                So tell me again, I, the user who actually spent my free time to report bugs, who is willing to improve the software for everyone (even if the cost of it is pressuring the dev to change his mind) am still a freeloader?

                I think open source devs are the ones that should be grateful that there are so many users in the open source world that are willing to test and report bugs in order to make the software better. How many bugs do you think the average joe Windows user has ever reported? If you ask him, he will probably not understand what you're even talking about.
                Last edited by user1; 17 August 2022, 02:04 PM.

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                • #48
                  No wonder people want to skip dGPUs on the ultrabooks.

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                  • #49
                    Originally posted by birdie View Post
                    Just like 25 years one of the biggest issues of Open Source/Linux in particular remains its users and some developers who are full of zealotry, "my way or the highway". A nice way to alienate both new users and developers since once they get a taste of it, they return to places where people have basic respect. Meanwhile for the past 25 years Linux still hasn't gained a single percent market share on the desktop and AAA games ports have all but completely ceased.
                    birdie Does your need for more and more vainglorious personal vanity know no depths?

                    Seriously, the article was interesting, a reasonable problem that many on Phoronix might be concerned about.

                    But then by the 3rd forum post or so Artem/Birdie has to inject himself into the forum thread, like he did into the Bugzilla bug report, and probably the Nvidia bug report (I have not read that one), and completely drives the Phoronix forum thread into a different direction that reveals his ceaseless need for I don't know what to call it other than vainglory.

                    IMHO it is way off-track forum threads like this that give me reason to find no difference between Slashdot lunacy and threads like this one that typify the term "Moronix".

                    smh

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                    • #50
                      Originally posted by user1 View Post

                      I know about all the WIndows shenanigans as well, but have you ever heard about a case when Windows software suddenly stopped working because Windows changed something in its component/dependency? I didn't. That's what I was talking about. Don't know about that search breaking outlook story, they're both Microsoft products, hence they might work tightly together, but I never heard about something that just breaks third party software.
                      I remember a couple news from years ago, about Windows 10 updates breaking stuff, both software and hardware drivers.

                      Personally, I think it sucks for those affected, but the Windows ecosystem is just too big to Microsoft not make anybody angry. Always will be someone making their software dependent of obscure resources that ended up being changed overtime.

                      Same thing with Linux. It is impossible to test every possible scenario before changes. That is why LTS distros are so popular among people with allergy to papercuts.

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