X Window System Turns 38 Years Old

[Old Grouch]

Yeah, I agree with that. But that said, I insist, while they probably want to, the nature of the Linux community pretty much makes it really unlikely that they can force you to switch to Wayland. Just as they couldn't make you switch to GNOME 3, because the attempt resulted in GNOME 2 being forked as MATE.

Well, I would not be so sure. There is highly vocal opposition to systemd, and while there do exist non-systemd distributions, they are not top mainstream ones (By which I mean Red Hat, SuSE and Debian). If you work hard, you can avoid systemd, and I suspect Wayland will end up the same. The X Window System will become niche and risk falling into desuetude.

[MorrisS.]

You've completely neglected my reply to your message as well as this entire discussion and all the information within. Are you talking to yourself, dude? This is now the second reply in this topic which makes absolutely no sense.

Normally, I don't communicate with non sense people, even if I make an exception replying to you in this case. As for your message, it is possible that I've missed your reply for not personal reasons. any way from your argument I get the following suggestion: try to cure yourself you have mental issues.

By the way: no notification was sent about your reply.

[sinepgib]

Well, I would not be so sure. There is highly vocal opposition to systemd, and while there do exist non-systemd distributions, they are not top mainstream ones (By which I mean Red Hat, SuSE and Debian). If you work hard, you can avoid systemd, and I suspect Wayland will end up the same. The X Window System will become niche and risk falling into desuetude.

Of course those won't be mainstream. Mainstream will always aim for regular users (except servers and embedded, but those won't run a GUI most of the time anyway), which means going for the safe-for-average-users defaults. Besides, systemd is special in that it's pervasive. It's rather hard for those distros to maintain both non-systemd and systemd workflows. X11 and Wayland are more or less independent. Only GNOME and maybe KDE are really likely to not be packaged with X11 support in the foreseeable futuro IMO, but you'd need to go out of your way to install the relevant packages and all that. But even then, some of the non-systemd distros work rather well AFAIK (I wouldn't know for sure as I like systemd, I'd only try non-systemd distros for embedded or to try out s6 that seems interesting).
But yeah, we agree that X11 will cease to be the mainstream, that's in part the point. That said, I don't think it'll fall into oblivion since (some?) BSDs are unlikely to adopt Wayland too.
Maybe I'm too much of an optimist with this, I don't know.

[birdie]

Normally, I don't communicate with non sense people, even if I make an exception replying to you in this case. As for your message, it is possible that I've missed your reply for not personal reasons. any way from your argument I get the following suggestion: try to cure yourself you have mental issues.

By the way: no notification was sent about your reply.

Um, so you're keen to insult and don't want to actually converse/argue. Good luck.

[Old Grouch]

Maybe I'm too much of an optimist with this, I don't know.

My natural state is cynical pessimism (which I defend as realism), so people like you are needed for balance.

[sinepgib]

My natural state is cynical pessimism (which I defend as realism), so people like you are needed for balance.

I generally am a cynical pessimist as well. But maintaining distros tend to be the exception in terms of community participation, as opposed to actually sending patches to support e.g. older hardware. And the cooperation for the BSDs should solve the second part (code maintenance) in this particular case.

[MorrisS.]

Um, so you're keen to insult and don't want to actually converse/argue. Good luck.

-------------------------your condition is your problem, a condition is not an insult. Try to face with it to fix your problems. Goodbye.

[billyswong]

Why should Gnome shoot itself in the foot by adopting old mistakes into a modern protocol.

Why should two processes be responsible for drawing one window, it was madness in the past and never properly worked, why in gods name should we do that BS again.

KDE adopted that because why should they care if something sucks, producing a desktop that sucks is in their DNA.

Again there already is a proper solution, which is either already adopted by the usual "toolkits" like SDL2. https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pa...L2-Wayland-CSD

There are valid reasons for "two processes be responsible for drawing one window". I like hanged / busy windows still being draggable and the minimize / close button still works.

[billyswong]

And the supposed "modern" protocol made the wrong assumption that fractional scaling is unneeded because it wouldn't be popular for all the alignment issue. The Wayland team is proven wrong. The manufacturers don't care. The consumers don't care enough. The market, 10 years after Apple's "Retina" is out, is full of monitors that expect people to use fractional scaling, especially laptop monitors and 4k monitors. Near 10 years are wasted because they insisted on downscaling window surfaces in compositor layer from integer scale to fractional scale, taking blurriness and inefficiency for everybody instead of some potential gaps and out of alignment for less well written software.

Now various mitigation proposals for Wayland are being written and tried by compositors outside the GNOME ecosystem. We will see which of them succeed. It is also possible for someone to come up with implementation for Windows-like mixed-DPI fractional scaling support in X.Org, now that X.Org is not maintained by the personnel in Wayland team and they can no longer block innovations there. The only true limitation of X in mixed DPI support is that it can't give a totally smooth drag of windows from screen A to screen B across DPI boundary, while keeping the window size "correct" in both sides. In the crossing phase, either one side would be too big or another side would be too small, just like what's happening in Windows.

[sinepgib]

There are valid reasons for "two processes be responsible for drawing one window". I like hanged / busy windows still being draggable and the minimize / close button still works.

As long as the compositor itself is not hanged and you use server side decorations, shouldn't all that still work?